posted
Galatians 5:1 (KJV) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
It appears the passage in Galatians 5 mentioning those fallen from grace was not speaking of those who believe OSAS or as some call it easy believism. The problem of the Galatians was not that they were too liberal and disobeying God; but rather that those who were freed in Christ were being entangled again in the yoke of bondage. There were some judizers teaching that the Galatian Christians needed to be circumcised. Paul told them they would be a debtor to do the whole law if they were.
He told them, if they were justified by the law, they were fallen from grace. For we are justified by Christ. He continues to call them brethren, thus these people were not considered lost at that time. He told them they are called to liberty; not liberty for the flesh; but liberty to serve one another in love. We are to walk in the spirit and not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
He tells them what the works of the flesh are: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviusness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envying, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such which keep a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
If you notice these things either break a command against God or against our neighbor.
While easy believism which teaches we can continue in sin is a dangerous false teaching, we can see that the opposite teaching of legalism can be just as dangerous, making Christ of none effect. You see we can’t be justified by our works. Christ is the one who justifies us.
We have seen that many things we’ve been taught by churches are not correct. Many are traditions of men. We must seek the truth and obey God as Christ taught us; not as men teach us. Some would have us go back to “keeping” the Sabbath the way it was kept in the OT giving no regard as to Christ teachings. Christ him self was accused of breaking the Sabbath because he healed and allowed the disciples to pick corn.
Matthew 12:1-2 (KJV) At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Notice the Pharisees question Christ so “they might accuse him.”
Matthew 12:10-12 (KJV) And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mark 2:23-24 (KJV) And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. [24] And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold,why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: [28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
I have been asked various times why I believe it is OK for a person to work on the Sabbath if their job requires it. I must answer, the Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around. For if a man would lose his livelihood and thus be unable to feed his own family by refusing to work at all on the Sabbath, would Jesus tell him to go to church, to rest or to go feed his family?
By doing “that which is not lawful” on the Sabbath, has this man done any of the things that prevent a man from inheriting the kingdom? By doing “that which is not lawful” on the Sabbath, has this man put the good of his wife and children before himself? By doing “that which is not lawful” has that man shown the fruits of the spirit to his family? Has he forgotten to “remember the sabbath day”? Has he changed the day to Sunday to suit his customs? Has this man used his liberty for his own lusts or to serve others with love? Would Christ condemn this man?
The things we are to do are called the fruit of the spirit. They are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. Basically the difference in those who inherit versus those who do not inherit is that “Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
It is good to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. We must be careful to remember it is made for man! Let man use his day for good and be careful not to judge what is good to be sin; lest we be legalists fallen from grace.
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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Hello Faith , I just read your post and this quote from you:
"While easy believism which teaches we can continue in sin is a dangerous false teaching, we can see that the opposite teaching of legalism can be just as dangerous, making Christ of none effect."
Since you recognize the Galatians as being true believers than what is the danger you speak of and what is the loss or gain of inheritance you refer too? What is the none effect Paul speaks of here?
I did not say they were true believers. What I said was, “He continues to call them brethren, thus these people were not considered lost at that time.”
Brethren is a term used between other believers. He was addressing all of the Galatians who believed. However, we must remember even the devils believe and also Simon, the sorcerer, who also believed and was even baptized; but who’s heart was not right. Thus, among those called brethren, some would be lost as devils and those whose heart still was not right. (Remember Jesus called Judas a devil. He knew Jesus personally and yet his heart was not changed.)
quote: Since you recognize the Galatians as being true believers than what is the danger you speak of and what is the loss or gain of inheritance you refer too? What is the none effect Paul speaks of here?
I think Paul was pretty clear that if they returned to legalism, Christ would profit them nothing and they would be fallen from grace. Wouldn’t that mean they were out of God’s grace and as if they had never had Christ since he does not profit them?
Galatians 5:2-4 (KJV) Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. [3] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. [4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Do you know the gospel of Christ? Did he not come to pay our debt for sin? If he is of none effect in our lives because we are working legalistically to earn our way into the kingdom, then we are as unbelievers, without Christ. We are still debtors to do the whole law. If Christ is of none effect, then the penalty for our sin still must be paid.
One who is a debtor to do the whole law can’t possibly of his own merit do such. So he is one who breaks the commandments and guilty of all. For if we break one, we break all. Notice in 17-21, the things that those in the flesh do keep one from inheriting the kingdom.
Eternal life in the kingdom is the reward Christ gives his followers. But if he is not in effect in our lives, if we are fallen from his grace, then we have no gift of eternal life in the kingdom. We can’t inherit the kingdom apart from Christ. One can not inherit the kingdom of God outside of grace.
It is obvious from the context since Paul is still speaking to these people to get them to repent of their legalism and live in the liberty of Christ, these people are not the same as those who are said to never be able to repent in Heb. 10:26 & Heb. 6:4-6. These evidently did not understand very well to begin with.
I found this passage very interesting, as so many teach that falling away refers to those who are too liberal, who just believe and willfully sin; but never mention the ones who teach legalism as fallen away. The passage is clear who it refers to in this particular instance. The legalists.
What do you think Christ being of none effect means and what loss does it lead to?
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
"Brethren is a term used between other believers. He was addressing all of the Galatians who believed".
I don't think Paul used this to refer to non-born again believers.If he was talking to non-believers also his point would have been pointless since Christ would have no effect on them from the get go. Also he is talking to those who have been walking by the spirit and now turned back to the law. If they ever were walking by the Spirit they had to be born again. If you believed back then you were baptised in to the body concurrently. Then it was one step not the way we separate it out now. The tares which flooded the church during the Constantine time and remain to this day were not the norm back then. There was already backsliding and heresies to overcome but even some "wolves" were very likely born again. Paul was battling the circumcision group that had come out of Jeruselum. It can be speculated that God had the temple destroyed and Jeruselum completely laid waste to finally separate the synogod sect from the Christian. Certainly that was one of the outcomes.
The loss is the loss of the out ressurection Paul is pursuing in Philipians.
By the way if Jeff is reading this I cannot find the ten virgin site again. Could you fax me and tell me how to get there?
posted
There seems to be some confusion about legalism and obedience. Jesus said that if we love him we should keep his commandments. And John wrote, "If we say we know him and keep not his commandments, we are a liar."
God calls his children to obedience to every word of God. Sin is breaking God's law and the end of sin is death. We cannot be both at enmity with God's law and in harmony with God's will. If the spirit of God controls the mind then the mind can control the flesh.
Had Jesus not died to redeem us from sin we should have remained forever in its grasp until death. We would have had no choice in the matter. We did not choose to be born into sin yet we could not have chosen to be freed from it. Only the cross of Christ restores to us the freedom of choice, the liberty from sin. Because Jesus willingly gave himself for our sins, we can choose to receive the free gift of eternal life. But even though we now have a choice, we are paralized to help ourselves without God's grace through Christ. God calls us to choose whom we will serve and then provides the power to accomplish it.
Paul, obviously a regenerated man says that he wants to know Christ and the ressurection power, the fellowship of His sufferings and to be conformed to his death. in order that Paul would attain to the ressurection from the dead. He has not attained it or already become perfect but is pressing on to lay hold of Christ.
Is Paul not sure of ressurection? Of course he is but this is not just the ressurection all believers will experience. This is the "greater" ressurection to the wedding feast to reign with Christ during the millenium as an overcomer. This is the gaining of Christ in the soul to be declared an overcomer, one conformed to the image of the first born Son. This is not a matter of works but a matter of the indwelling Crace of God as the Sprit in our spirit gaining the soul by the denying of that life. This is the expression of Christ, spontaneously manifested by the constitutional saturation of Christ, for the dominion of Christ, as the body of Christ, to satisfy God's eternal purpose, that Christ should fill and be all in all.
The resurrection Paul speaks of is the same as 1 Cor. 15.
1 Cor. 15:51-54 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
This is the resurrection of the dead saints and the change of the living saints to incorruptible. This happens quickly in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. Nothing is said of other Christians who don’t quite make it. Nothing is said of them being given another 1,000 years to run the race. Our lifetime is the time we have to strive to enter the narrow gate. There are no second chances. It is not our works that perfect us and allow us to enter. It is Christ who perfects us. It is he who makes the way for those who believe and follow. We know who believes because they follow the one Shepard.
Phil. 3 speaks of those who are perfect. However, it is because of Christ they are considered perfect in him. Paul speaks often of continuing in the race, continuing in the faith, holding fast what you have received. Thus, our only part is to continue believing and trusting Christ. Those who truly believe and trust him will do what he leads them to do by his power, by him living in them. Their hearts are now different because of him in them.
Today is the day of salvation. Once you believe, you have entered the race. The race only ends when Christ returns or at your physical death. Your part is to continue, Christ has done the rest.
Col. 1:23 (KJV) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
you said "Your part is to continue, Christ has done the rest."
So what happens to those who do not "continue"?
The verses you quoted speak of the general ressurection not the outcome of the "judgement seat".
Yes Christ has done it all. He has made all things available to us . Those being sanctified is the process of our appopriating what He has appropriated for us. It is not by works it is by the Spirit. "if you put to death the practices of the flesh by the Spirit you will live". Which obviously implies that if you don't you will experience death. So you are left with the dilema of deciding to hold to a theology that denies the abundance of scripture demanding appropriation to the gaining of the soul or you choose to become Armenian and claim we can become unborn.
Actually, I believe there is something inbetween Calvinism and Armeninism because I can see some correct points on both sides and some errors on both sides. Usually the truth lies somewhere inbetween extremes. I'm still studying on this issue.
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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Yes there is a place where truth resides that is not Calvinist or Armenian in totality. this verse sums up that place "work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who does the willing and the working".
This place is under a new law, that law is found in Romans 8.
This law does not replace the original law but fufills it, in us, but not by us.
The fulfillment of the law of life is Christ in us who fufilled and fulfills the old law by the new law of His Life.
Al, I agree with much of what you say. And, Faith and I agree in many things. But when it comes to the Sabbath, we don't see eye-to-eye. Personally, I cannot understand how we can separate the Sabbath command from the other nine and reject it yet still believe we uphold the others. Doesn't James say if we break one we break them all? That denounces legalism in all aspects, showing that the law cannot be kept in letter, but only in Spirit. And the spirit of the law is love. Love for God first, and man second. True love, a godly love, cannot be managed--metering it out to those who favor us and withholding it from those who despise us. Neither can the law of love be managed. Either it is kept in it entirety, or it is not kept at all.
Because this topic has moved toward a Sabbath discussion, the moderator has requested we split it out and start a new thread. To follow the Sabbath discussion Click Here
It's complicated to explain but extremely long pages make probs for dial-up users. When a person adds his reply to a long (or short) thread, the entire thread or page has to be re-written on the fly with the new content then uploaded again on your computer. Some dial-up connections are dropped during this process, particulary when the page exceeds 125k.
This is one of several reasons to just stay on the present topic or just start a new one. Page size is kept to a minimum.
Jeff, would you please copy all your Sabbath posts and put them in a new topic in the Lord's Day section. Then, could you please delete them here and cite the url of the new topic, since it is turning into a Sabbath discussion. Faith, would you do the same with your Sabbath posts after he gives the new location?
Much thanks! Others, later - and this is intended to be a long term project - will be able to navigate much more easily and without the frustration of finding so many topics which became jump off points for other unrelated themes.
Hope this explains what happens behind the scenes on each submission. Have Jesus day!
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