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"You know what I like about B----? He wants to debate [spiritual things]in a non-competitive way, as if we all want to figure it out, rather than adversarial."
"Yeah. It's more like a fox hunt. We all want to find the fox!"
-------------------- You & Me and Jesus. We are enough!
If I may? There are two types of discovery. One is inquisitorial, and the other is adversarial.
Inquisitorial discovery is the type of discovery where an authority (a judge) goes on a fact finding mission. Since he is the prosecution, defense, judge, and jury, and in touch with the methods used to come to a proper conclusion, this is a "personal" decision. For example, this is often the internal method one uses when reading a book (to decide if it is true or not). When there is only one "expert" this is the most efficient method of discovery. I believe this method to be impossible on an open forum.
Adversarial discovery is the type of discovery where there is more than one "expert" presenting their opinion. They're opinions differ, but there is still supposed to be a "search for the truth". There is no room for opinion or partiality. The word "adversarial" only goes to describe the differing of opinions, not aggressiveness, harshness, tone, etc.
The truth is, it is impossible to be "inquisitorial" and hold an opinion of the facts beforehand. The true question is, are those here open to discover new facts?
quote: Inquisitorial discovery is the type of discovery where an authority (a judge) goes on a fact finding mission. Since he is the prosecution, defense, judge, and jury,
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Hey JeffL, Long time no hear from. Glad to see you are okay! I like what a Christian comedian, Mark Lowery asks. "Has it ever occurred to you that nothing has ever occurred to God?" I guess what I'm trying to say is, discovery is not necessary with Him. He already knows. If you are The Truth, then there is no investigation needed to find It! Also, the fact would be, He is not the prosecution.
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Open to new facts? Well, in the group we were talking about, most are NOT open to new facts. They have memorized their proof texts, decided The Way we are supposed to be, and they are the highwater mark by which the rest of us are to be measured.
The one among them who has a more sweet spirit is such a blessing, and we enjoy discussing things with him, because he seems to want to join us in the spirit "inquiry" instead of in the spirit of "let's discover what is wrong with YOU"
-------------------- You & Me and Jesus. We are enough!
quote:Originally posted by JeffL: Please explain Rev 2:23 in light of your comments.
Hey JeffL, Why would The Lord be looking at our kidneys and hearts? Are you stipulating that The Lord "searches" our kidneys? What is he looking for? Kidney flukes (schistosoma haematobium) maybe? Maybe He is checking us for hartworms? (Heartworms disease is a very serious canine condition and it's possible, though rare, for these parasites to enter the human system.*)
Do you think that The Lord, Who spoke the universe into being, Who knows the number of hairs on our head, is really looking at our kidneys? Maybe this is saying that NOTHING is hid from The One who knows all and sees all (or searches all things). Just a speculation. Here is another. You are still trying to make The Bible fit sda teachings.
This is not a speculation. The Bible never will!
However, the truth is, S. haematobium can cause urinary tract damage that can lead to blocking of the urinary tract ...and can even lead to bladder cancer (from Health A to Z). Heartworms can kill too. Maybe The Lord is... oh never mind.
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(I think we're done here, Matthew. Laura has something of value to share. Let's not overshadow that with personal attacks by ridiculing the comments of others or attacking their faith. If you have a point to make then do so with scripture; not quotes from Star Wars, comedians, opinions, or science so-called.
If you truly don't know why the Lord searches our hearts then read Psalm 139 or speak to Laura Ann or Jeanne about it. It is very difficult for me to understand how you could miss this point. Because you represent yourself as one who has knowledge in spiritual matters your answer comes off as being very flippant.)
*Edited-changed sentence structure for clarity and replaced teacher with 'one who has knowledge'.
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Laura Ann, have you found ways to disarm such people? I have often used the example of taking something away from a baby. You will have less of a struggle if you interest them in something better. As they grab for the new item they let go of the old. It's not a perfect analogy otherwise we would not only be able to attract them by example but we would also be able to cast down the imaginations of the heart with a Truth that sets men free.
Someone at work used the tagline, "People don't care what you know until they know that you care." This is becoming more and more prevalent in our world as there are more and more hurting people. It seems difficult for people to reach out for truth unless they have certain basic needs fulfilled. If they only knew Who it is that holds the answers to all of their needs and is acquainted intimately with all of their hurts.
quote:Laurie Ann hinted: The one among them who has a more sweet spirit is such a blessing, and we enjoy discussing things with him, because he seems to want to join us in the spirit "inquiry" instead of in the spirit of "let's discover what is wrong with YOU"
This person is opinionated. However, this person HATES to argue. I really ...oops, I mean this person really just wants to find ways to practice what he (or she) has learned, but doesn't know how in this person's present condition. Present Condition: total religious disenchantment!!! (NOTE: This person thinks this condition is a good thing.)
This person also has only two modes; 1.) Very, very relaxed. 2.) Kill, maim, annihilate, terminate, and destroy (any religious bondage)!
There are names for this. 1.) The, "I hate religion" fact. 2.)The, "corpse or cop" anti-religion reaction. 3.)The, "that dog bites the religious" response. 4.) The, "let peaceful 'religious escapees' lie" rule.
See, this is a humor topic! And I have more.
Having said that, last night I ran across two young ladies that were dressed in goth. They were coming out of PETCO (where the pets go) with rather large snakes wrapped all around them (they had two snakes each). I had my daughter with me (she is not afraid of snakes) so we went over and asked if we could see their snakes. Well, those were two of the nicest young women I have ever met. I wanted to take both of them home with me! Their snakes were nice too, and we even got to pet them. (The snakes, we petted the snakes!)
I spent some of my "Jesus money" on my daughter (the mall here has that jumping/bouncing thing) and two little boys later gave her a stuffed animal... and we had a great time out together (I got tired first)!
quote:JeffL whined: I think we're done here... Laura has something of value.... overshadow that with personal attacks... ridiculing... attacking...
Oh, I'm not done (see my above post). What's wrong JeffL? Don't you get it? Can't you take it? You sure like to dish it out! Ever had the thought, "Hey, maybe I should just leave Matthew alone!?!"
"No." You may say? Here, lets be even more frank [speculation warnings]. You are apparently [pause to let that sink in] only a close-minded bully that uses The Bible to attempt to legitimize your "faith" in Ellen G. White and her blatant lies. (NOTE: It has even been proven that the vegetarian diet is not the best diet to help you live a long life!) ...then you apparently come on here, (a home church forum no less) just to pick fights and cause strife. Well, you thought you could bully me off of here from day one... well, thanks to others here, you were wrong!
The truth is, I have attacked and ridiculed the sda church, not you... but I openly admit that! It was my hope that showing you how ridiculous the sda claims are would shake the scales of sda blindness from your eyes. You had been gone for a while, and I had hope. I now admit that my attempts have obviously failed.
quote:If you have a point to make then do so with scripture; not quotes from Star Wars, comedians, opinions, or science so-called.
What? Are you insane? Better take that wig off! Ha!!! Are you now the don't-quote-anything-but-The-Bible-police!?! Did you know that you are currently writing this statement under a subtopic of "humor". I happen to find that very humorous!
Next, where Have I spoken one word to you here on the RCC where you have not posted to me first (save for the pharisee of pharisees topic which came from a private personal attack of your making)? I can't help it if your facts are ridiculous and unfounded? (Seen any good coal fires lately?) Ha ha ha!!!
You see, your problem is, you like picking arguments, and then when you end up looking foolish, (because you didn't take the time to check the Greek just like EGW didn't) you blame me ...and then you insinuate things like; "Laura Ann, have you found ways to disarm such people? I have often used the example of taking something away from a baby."
I have openly called you out on this simpleminded name calling thing (numerous times) and you apparently seem incapable of doing anything else. Therefore, you reduce yourself to the childish level of the very baby you try and hide within your silly insinuations. WELL, why don't you call the whaaaaambulance JeffL! (I got that from the movie "The Kid.") I take away your little sda candy, and you cry about it... Well, boo ho ho!
Oh, and one more thing. My question was not so much why The Lord searches the heart ...my real question was obviously the kidney thing! Ha ha ha ha! He he he he! Who ho! Ha ha ha!!!
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This is just a note to the reader that the above post is admittedly quite harsh. Everyone has their limit, and I have reached mine. So, first let me say JeffL and I have a long history here. Second, I feel that there comes a time when misbehavior must be addressed. Thirdly, let me say that I apologize to the other readers.
quote:Originally posted by JeffL: Laura Ann, have you found ways to disarm such people? I have often used the example of taking something away from a baby. You will have less of a struggle if you interest them in something better.
Well, yes, the fact that I still spend time with them (many others have written them off) is evidence we are striving to love them, model a better way -- make the New Wine so delicious they will let go of them old wineskins!
The older people are, though, the longer their attentions span. I often see a look cross their face -- "Hey wait a minute, I'm agreeing with you! I'd better think of another proof text, quick!" And off to the safety of an "inside the box" discussion.
-------------------- You & Me and Jesus. We are enough!
quote: I often see a look cross their face -- "Hey wait a minute, I'm agreeing with you! I'd better think of another proof text, quick!" And off to the safety of an "inside the box" discussion.
Of course, so how do you disarm them. How do you navigate their misconceptions without setting off these booby traps? When we get this type of typical response does it mean we have proceeded too quickly?
Why do people refuse to hear?
1. Pride - afraid they might have to admit they are wrong 2. Lazy/busy - don't take the time to investigate for themselves 3. Apathy - too disinterested to study so blindly accept pastor's word 4. Fear - so confused by so many different viewpoints
Others?
I know that personally it is much more pleasurable to discuss Biblical issues with someone who feels like velvet, rather than sandpaper, when rubbed the wrong way. But there are some who feel that what you need is a good scrubbing with lie and Brillo to clean you up. These often are the same ones who want to snatch things from you and leave you empty handed.
Speaking of conversations at the breakfast table. Do you feel it is appropriate to pray for misery (the ill, the poor, the hungry) before a meal? Personally, I think that meal time should be very pleasant to aid digestion. Have you ever had these thoughts?
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Hi all. There is already plenty of pro and anti SDA sentiment all over this forum. A moratorium is supposedly in effect. Right?
Please do not bring SDA matters up and do not engage those who do bring them up. Just point these submissions out to me in private and I shall have them edited by the original author or they can just be removed in their entirety.
There already exists, I said, site upon site of SDA stuff and I can assure you that people do not join or visit this forum to encounter it again, much less in a hostile environment. Btw, I personally do not believe that everything SDA is necessarily wrong or evil.
I do believe those of us who are against it or for it have ALREADY had a fair opportunity to state our case over and over right here. Let's turn the corner, then.
If anybody wants to consider "searching the hearts" please, by all means, start a new thread beyond the humor section. Otherwise, I am going to come over to your house and put everything in your garage into your bedroom and kitchen. He, he, he...
I am on the road. I am kinda tired but headin out to OH where my family is. So, I cannot reply to private messages for a few days.
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Laurie Ann, I found this little bit of humor, and I thought you might get a kick out of it!
A SHORT HISTORY OF MEDICINE: "Doctor, I have an ear ache." 2000 BC - "Here, eat this root." 1000 BC - "That root is heathen, say this prayer." 1850 AD - "That prayer is superstition, drink this potion." 1940 AD - "That potion is snake oil, swallow this pill." 1985 AD - "That pill is ineffective, take this antibiotic." 2008 AD - "That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root!"
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Here is another one that I think folks will enjoy,
One balmy day in the South Pacific, a navy ship espied smoke coming from one of three huts on an uncharted island. Upon arriving at the shore they were met by a shipwreck survivor.
"I'm so glad you're here!" He exclaimed. "I've been all alone on this island for more than a year!"
The captain then asked, "If you're all alone on this island, why do I see THREE huts?"
"Oh." The survivor said, "Well... I live in this one over here, and I go to church in that one over there."
"What about that THIRD hut?" Asked the captain.
"Oh." He said, "Well... that's where I USED to go to church."
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A Sunday School teacher was describing how when Lot's wife looked back at Sodom she turned into a pillar of salt, when Bobby interrupted. "My mommy looked back once while she was driving," he announced, "and she turned into a telephone pole."
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