posted
I was wondering if anyone could give me a definition of the emergent church, and maybe what their core values seem to be? I t would be helpful to have a definition of simple church (is house church the same as simple?), as well as institutional church. Thanks!
posted
Jeanne! That is such an important question! You can get a basic definition at wikipedia that is pretty close to what I have seen/heard.
I'm afraid that emerging church's "core value" is "whatever works", in my opinion.
While their desire is admirable, I feel very strongly these problems:
1. They don't allow "non-negotiables" 2. They believe in continuing in large meeting institutional structure, which small groups are leading to, rather than (like us) seeing small groups as the goal 3. I'm seeing a "top down strategy structure that is deceptive, manipulative. 4. The emphasis on "the consumer" results in "Children's Church for Grown-ups"! 5. The emphasis on not being dogmatic results in not emphasizing the basics 6. The emphasis on being relevant results in more of the things we all are fleeing from in leaving the institutional church. Worst of all, they use lingo that appeals to Great Commission Knock-down-drag-out-Kingdom People, and then "bait and switch" them into SameOldSameOld: Let's build a Gym! Let's Have More Media! Let's Have a Halo Tournament! PuLeeeze~!
Having said ALL that libelous stuff, I will say that, as with any large movement, not everyone will subscribe to the same thing. There is incredible variety within it.
But, those who are committed to New Testament principles do well to either avoid emergent type models, or to strive to be very well informed about it. House Church is being lumped in with the word Emerging and Emergent, but there are some distinctive differences.
Perhaps this would say it best: Emerging Church starts with how messed up our society is, how the church is failing, how far away the lost are and tries to create a bridge BACK to the Bible. New Testament Church starts with what Jesus said he wanted and tries to create it, building bridges OUT to the lost.
I am uncompromising in believing this is the red herring that is keeping people from seeking out the Kingdom of God for themselves. It is a watered down version that doesn't expect God's Spirit to empower those who believe.
And I'D BETTER SHUT UP NOW>>>
Blessings to you, Glory to Jesus, Power to God's People! Laurie Ann
-------------------- You & Me and Jesus. We are enough!
That helps! It seems that emergent church is used in a general sense to describe anything that is relaively new and different from traditional church (the IC). But it seems that house churh would not fit into this catagory as it predates even the Roman Catholic Church.
Laurie, I liked what you wrote, as it seems that many are seeing how the IC tends to fall short, and are strategizing how to make church work better- and reach more people. The problem I see is that what tends to happen is it is human lead, and much like the IC becomes at least partly based on worldly wisdom because it is human lead.
It seems the question we should be looking to answer, is how can we can die to ourselves, and see God work through and amoung us? Just thinking aloud
It seems the question we should be looking to answer, is how can we can die to ourselves, and see God work through and amoung us? Just thinking aloud
Yes, Amen, Jeanne! My concern is that this is the latest in the "how can we use business models, or psychology, or technology to reach people" fads.
I contend that if these things could work We'd Be Home By Now!
We haven't really tried the Jesus Way, and I've committed my life to throw myself on the Jesus Way completely and wholeheartedly and just see what happens.
Recently I've been put on the defensive a bit by people who wonder,"So, where are these churches you are planting"? But I sit down and look at the lives we are influencing for the Simple Gospel and have no regrets and no apologies. You can't see yeast in the dough, you can only see that the dough seems to take up more room than it used to!
Blessings! Laurie Ann
-------------------- You & Me and Jesus. We are enough!
posted
For this very reason people desperately need to study scripture for themselves and not put so much trust in men. It is too bad that we tend to be fed milk and don't like to chew on hard subjects. They will be known by their fruits.
as for the EC, I thought it was "good" at first, but now believe/know it is not. It is mans attempt to "change things", a lot of post modernism, mystical stuff sourced from the Catholic Church, and scripture seems to be "anything you want it to be".
Some good articles on the EC, to try and establish a 'definition':
We were traveling over the holidays- what fun to come back and read through all the new posts and threads!
Peter- Thanks for all of the links- some very good reading! I especially liked the harvestnet article on the IC!!! It is been so interesting to have been lead by God into simple church, coming to many conclusions on our own, that I am now finding many other people hold to as well! God certainly is in the business of "renewing the mind", if we can only learn to become "living sacrifices" so that He can do so!
Laurie- You have talked about previously being doers in the IC, and now having the time to really love people, both inside and out of the body of believers. I can so relate to that!!! I was struck by this the other day. A good friend of mine has recetly been diagnosed with ALS. Three other friends and I clean her house once a week, and then the 5 of us sit down together and study the word. She attends the church I used to and was talking about the recent women's retreat that she had attended. Previous to this year I used to run that womens retreat each year and it got me thinking... That was a program that, although brought truth and other good things to a large number of women, in reality acomplished little more than stroking my own pride, and keeping the women attendees accustomed to being spoon fed vs. learning to wrestle with the Lord themselves for real meat. Running that confrence took alot of time- and now I have the time to clean this womans house, and help her to learn to go to the Lord and His word for herself. We study the Word in an interactive way, and when she says for instance that she hears so much from other people about what God says about healing, but doesn't know what to believe, I can honestly say that I don't exactly know either, so why don't we study it and come back together and share what God is teaching us. Se doesn't know how to do this, so I give her some pointers and off we go. Needless to say, that although physicaly she is dying (God could heal her at any point of course), spiritually she is growing like a weed!!!!! I share this because God is opening my eyes to the fact that although from the outside running a big womens retreat may look more effective than what I am currently doing, I don't think so! I believe that by spending my time cleaning this womans house with a small group of women and seeking the lord together through prayer and His word, I am spreading the right kind of yeast, and as you said, Laurie- "you can't see yeast in the dough, you can only see that the dough takes up a little more room than it used to!"
posted
Yes- us too. I was reading the other day and came accross this verse- "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things- and the things that are not- to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast." (1 cor. 1:27-29) This makes me think that we are on the right track Laurie .
Email this page to someone.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
