posted
For a number of years, The Barna Group has also been following the practice of “tithing,” which is donating at least ten percent of one’s income. While Christians dispute whether tithing refers to giving the entire ten percent to churches or whether that sum may include money donated to churches and other non-profit entities, the survey data reveal that no matter how it is defined, very few Americans tithed in 2004. Only 4% gave such an amount to churches alone; just 6% gave to either churches or to a combination of churches and parachurch ministries.
That could be one reason why people don't tithe but I think in many cases it may be just an excuse not to give.
Scripture tells us not to wish those who carry another gospel "god speed." 2 John 2:10,11. This could be expanded to include monetary support as well. I do think we need to be aware of how our money is used. I certainly would never support a JW in spreading their false teaching which undermines the Divinity of Jesus. But there are many good places to put your tithe to work for Jesus.
But I am reminded of the corrupt Jewish system in Jesus' day and the widow's mite. Jesus accused the leaders of stealing money from widows. And still he blessed the widow who gave from her need and held her up as an example to his disciples and all who would read about her story through-out history. This is a rebuke to our selfishness today.
Personally, I believe in paying tithe and am a faithful tithe payer giving more than 10% of my gross income in tithe. I view it as an act of faith that everything I receive is from God. I am simply returning a small portion as he asked, as a sign acknowledging its source, and that I am grateful for his care. I also willingly give to charities such as those that help others in their need (Red Cross) and especially those that help others improve their economic situation so that they can support themselves and help others too.
You know, there is so much corruption today that if we held back our money because of the sins of men there would be very little resources for the furtherance of God's work. Sometime I think we need to be faithful and leave the details to God.
But then, Jesus said that the love of many would grow cold because of the overflooding evil. Matt 24:12. Would that be less love for God and our neighbor as ourself? Remember that "in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves,... Without natural affection,... Having a form of godliness,... but denying the power thereof." We need to pray for power to obey God so that we do not become reprobates instead of saints.
Long time no speak! Following is an argument on tithing. Pls see if one can explain that. Thanks.
Deut 14:28 & 26:12 - tithing for the Levites was only at the third year which was 3.33% per year, not 10%.
Not convinced?
Let's do a little math here - what's the ratio of Israelites to Levites at the time when the tithing law was given? If you may turn to Numbers you probably will find that it's about 30:1. What's your point? You may ask. OK, let's say you are correct that the Israelites had to tithe to the levites every year. Let's say the average increase of one Israelite was 100 lambs - and let's say 90 were enough to feed the family and 10 were for tithing. How many would each Levite get each year? Yes, it's 300. He'd had to tithe to the Lord and that would leave him and his family 270 lambs. If they ate the same way as an average Israelite family did, they would have 180 excess at the end of each year. Well, who would take care of the excess? Did they take care of the 180 themselves or did they hire someone to do the job?
Well, if you follow Deut 14:28 and 26:12, each Levite family would get 100 every year. 90 for the family and 10 for tithing - no excess, no shortage........
Here's a little something I did not write but thought I would share it.
Tithe
a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:20; Heb. 7:6); and Jacob vowed unto the Lord and said, "Of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee." The first Mosaic law on this subject is recorded in Lev. 27:30-32. Subsequent legislation regulated the destination of the tithes (Num. 18:21-24, 26-28; Deut. 12:5, 6, 11, 17; 14:22, 23). The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. In the days of Hezekiah one of the first results of the reformation of religion was the eagerness with which the people brought in their tithes (2 Chr. 31:5, 6). The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets (Amos 4:4; Mal. 3:8-10). It cannot be affirmed that the Old Testament law of tithes is binding on the Christian Church, nevertheless the principle of this law remains, and is incorporated in the gospel (1 Cor. 9:13, 14); and if, as is the case, the motive that ought to prompt to liberality in the cause of religion and of the service of God be greater now than in Old Testament times, then Christians outght to go beyond the ancient Hebrew in consecrating both themselves and their substance to God. Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land.
posted
Tithe is "tenth" as demonstrated in my prior post. The people set aside a tenth of all their increase as they received it during the year as Numbers 14:22 [correction, Deut 14:22] states. But it would appear from the context that they did not have to make the trip to pay their tithes each year but could defer to the 3rd year. It would still be a tenth of every increase. Also, provision was made so that if the distance was great they were allowed to convert their tithe into money so it would be easier to carry. It was this practice that the merchants later exploited and which caused Jesus to clean the temple.
Could it be that we look at tithe as a burden rather than a blessing? I believe that the major reason America is blessed is because we are a nation of givers. Tho' the love of many is waxing cold as time goes on and contributions are down as evidenced by the survey David posted at the start of this topic.
Read the following passage. Do you see the act of love in giving tithe or do you just see the loss of your own personal gain? As you read this, remember that Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Love is at the heart of obedience to God. Or, should I have said, love is IN the heart of obedience to God. "And this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and they are not burdensome."
Follow the LORD's Commands (NIV)
Numbers 26
16 The LORD your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul. 17 You have declared this day that the LORD is your God and that you will walk in his ways, that you will keep his decrees, commands and laws, and that you will obey him. 18 And the LORD has declared this day that you are his people, his treasured possession as he promised, and that you are to keep all his commands. 19 He has declared that he will set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations he has made and that you will be a people holy to the LORD your God, as he promised.
To understand that to love God is to obey listen to this sermons on 1 John by Dr. Jeremiah, TurningPoint Ministries. Click. It really is very good! Basically, if you want to show someone you love them, maybe your parents, then you do what they say over and above what you would rather do. Would that not also be considered honoring one's parents? Well, that's another topic!
posted
So just who do we pay tithe to? Since the old levitical temple system is done away? And is 10% still in effect?
Funny how the IC love to state the 10 commandments are done away and nailed to the cross; but the 10% tithe to the temple system is still in effect. Could it have to do with money and power?
The old temple system was done away at the cross including the tithes. However, Christ taught us that giving is good and should be done to help others. God loves a cheerful giver. He didn’t specify a % but that we should give as able (those with abundance) from the heart cheerfully.
2 Cor. 9:7 (KJV) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Notice that the only collection mentioned in the NT, as far as I remember, was a collection----- not for the temple (church building) nor the priests (preachers)--- for the saints!!!! One group of saints was having difficulty and another group of saints gave to help them.
1 Cor. 16:1-2 (KJV) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. [2] Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Notice that those who have much, give much; those who have little receive.
2 Cor. 8:14 (KJV) But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
Also Christ taught us to give a drink to the stranger, to give food or a coat etc. Help anyone we can in whatever way. Thus, to give to organizations like the Red Cross would be good. To give to a needy neighbor, donate items or money to victims of fires, domestic violence, etc. in your neighbor hood would be using money for God. Sometimes direct help to a neighbor can be an excellent way to witness Christ. Also slip in gospel tracts in goods donated to food drives for the poor. Buying tracts and Bibles to give to others is another way to give. Remember, we have received the truth freely and should give it freely. Proverbs 23:23 (KJV)
God’s work doesn’t necessarily mean supporting a church ministry. Although those who attend the IC should help keep it up; but 10 %? Look at the way those who lead the IC’s live on that 10% and see that big cars, furs, vacation homes, etc. are not needed and are paid for by poor widows on social security. Wrong!!!!!!Wrong!!!!! This doen’t honor God.
Could the reason the Barna statistics show tithing to churches is down is because the people realized they were being fleeced and now give to those really in need?
Here are some links to articles who agree that the 10% tithe law is no longer in effect.
posted
Couldn't help but notice the recent data as to which states were the most charitable in their donations to the non-profit organizations. The poor Southern states generally outgave the wealthier New England states on a per capita basis.
Go figure...
Many good points in the above post, Faith. Btw, while we're on the subject of money, does anyone have ideas concerning the post which came in a few days ago about communal living. Anyone tried that?
posted
Hi Jeff, I would like to have a correct understanding on tithing in OT before even thinking about how it should apply to NT believers. Thus the numbers I presented on my last post - it didn't make sense if it's 10% increase every year, let alone 3 x 10%.
Deut 14:28-29 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
These verses clearly indicated that it's the third year's that tithe went to the Levite & the poor but the article from Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary indicated that there were two separate tithes for the Levite and the poor. Who should I believe - the Bible or the Dictionary?
And let's say the 10% rule applies to NT believers and there are indeed 3 x 10% - 10% to the clergy, 10% to the use of the church and 10% to the poor. Why do we present day Christians emphasize so much and settle on just one 10% which is mostly for the operational cost of the church but not on the 10% to the poor? Is the operation of the church more important than feeding the hungry?
posted
Didn't Zacchaeus say he gave half of his goods to the poor? Who would do that if the love of God was not in their heart?
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
And, who can profess to love God without concern for others? "Easy-believism" as Dr. Jeremiah quoted the other day.
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
This appears to be a NT principle which is greater than tithe (10%). After all, don't we profess to believe that they were under a schoolmaster to bring them to Christ but now we don't need a schoolmaster (law) because we are of Christ. Then, shouldn't our giving exceed theirs? Shouldn't our giving exceed their 10%? Doesn't it stand to reason that if we believe we are under grace and they were not, because grace come by Jesus Christ, that we should be all the more mature (selfless)?
This is a very hard principle for people to accept because it hits their belt line. I have a hard time convincing my wife to help others monetarily. Oh, especially not MY FAMILY. But, we are praying about our selfishness and learning, by sacrifice, what giving is all about and to have fellowship with Christ. A systematic method of giving is best because it develops good habits.
Deut 14:22 ¶ Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Interesting thing about percentages. 10% is always 10% whether you apply it daily or weekly or monthly or yearly. But this verse, which is in context to the verse you used in your argument, clearly states 10% (tithe) of all the increase year by year. Even if you waited until the 50th year and gave 10% it would still come out to the same as 10% each year.
If you want to support not paying tithe you will find many in the broad path to agree with you. But to find those who believe we should tithe--they are few. So in this case, the quantity of material to support your position should carry no weight with Christians.
Our job is not to prove or disprove our duty but to simply perform those duties which are clear to our mind. Then will the light of truth open upon our pathway.
Regarding the poor southern states, look at this passage:
Deut 31: 19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. 20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. 21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
I believe it talks about forgetting the Lord when we are satisfied. We get to the place that we feel self-sufficient when the Lord has blessed us.
I think that when we feel we are "getting ahead" finally, it produces a selfishness that works against a generous nature that God want us to develop.
Something to think about: When we are receiving we feel blessed by God. But, I would argue that generally it is in our times of great need that we truly are blessed by God. As they say, sometimes you have to be lying flat on your back in order to look up!
"What does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his own soul?" Will others call that man blessed? What about the poor man unable to keep his family fed and clothed? Will we call him lazy, stupid, or cursed?
This is a very interesting verse worth our attention:
James 2: 14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
posted
Hi Jeff, You haven't answer my question regarding the ratios between Israelites and Levites. I am waiting for that. Good that you brought up Deut 14:22. If you read the whole passage 22-29 you will find that it was abused so much by the churches, even Doug Batchelor. Did the passage even suggest the followings? (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land.
I have already given my answer. Giving must happen cheerfully as well as willingly. I am not sure why you desires to press this further. Are you looking for the least requirements as if salvation depended upon your works? Jesus has already paid you your wages in great drops of blood. Do you now want to split hairs to find how little you have to give in return? If this is the case then I fear you haven't understood the infinite price that was paid to redeem you. Instead of asking how little, you should be asking can I give any more?
My point was that although there is not a 10% requirement, we are to give cheerfully as we can where there is need. Some should be able to give more than 10%. However, those who are in need of basic necessities due to illness, temporary unemployment, or even under employment should tend to the needs of their family first before giving to keep up a church building or giving to others. Can't the poorest of saints consider use of their small funds to feed their children doing God's work? Jesus said you don't take the food from the mouth of the children to give the dogs, implying family first. Those with an abundance can and should take up the slack. Christ never imposed a legalistic tithe on those in need.
As for the reason the poor Southerners out give the wealthy Northerners, it not only has to do with understanding need from being or having been in want; but remember it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom than a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Thus, most of the wealthy who could give abundantly don't for they don't have the love of Christ in them. Nor am I saying that all the poor Southerners are Christian; but there would be a larger percent who are just because they aren't wealthy. It is the meek and poor who will inherit.
There are those wealthy who give to work their way into the kingdom or to gain respect, honor and power in the community. There are those who give because they have compassion; but not always the compassion of Christ. I've seen old drunkards that would give the shirt of their backs. Giving doesn't really prove one is or is not Christian. Christ knows our motives for giving or not and what is in our hearts.
Here's a true example:
A family who was struggling to make ends meet went to a church but couldn't afford to tithe. By the time bills were paid, children were clothed and fed, there was nothing left. It was even hard to buy gas to go to church.
This church didn't pass the collection plate; but everyone handed their donations to the preacher. There were several very well off families in this church, including the preacher. The church was not in finanical difficulty.
One time a visiting preacher came and was collecting for some poor Christians in another country. These Christians didn't have proper food or clothes and were in dire need. The preacher did something he normally didn't do and that was to pass the collection plate for these saints in need. Thus, from the love in their hearts, this poor family put in a small donation to help their brothers in need.
As the church was small, the preacher saw the family put in their donation. Thus, can you guess what he said the next week? He said he should start passing the plate! Was his motivation love? or was it greed?
I know of other such stories of how the churches more or less demand money from the very saints they should be helping.
You are wrong, there are not many who believe as I do on this subject; because they do not want to hear that they should give cheerfully from a loving heart even more than 10% if they can. Most don't want to give anything. Many who do give regularly give because they feel it is a mandatory law they have to follow. You are wrong thinking there is a mandatory tithe to a church. We are the church, thus the money should be used for the benifit of us, the people, the church. If it goes through the collection plate, it rarely ever gets back to those who need it. Christ even mentioned the Pharasees robbing the widows. How do you think they did that? Did they break in their houses and steal or was it because they demanded tithe of those who couldn't afford it?
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
posted
Jeff, Like I said in the 1st post - I just wanted an explanation. Well, I'm not surprised at your answer. I asked the same question to a lot of people and some of the answers were very similar to yours - at least you didn't label me Pharisees and I thank you for that. Guess I'll just keep asking...
posted
Faith, More than one pastor told me in the last ten years of my Christian life that if I wanted to help the poor, I had to first fulfill my responsibility as a church member by tithing. Any offerings to the poor and the hungry should be in addition to tithing. At one time I really struggled because I couldn't spare any meaningful amount of money for the poor, not even my parents. And then I learnt about how the tithings were spent at my church. And then I just put aside 10% for charity...and then I learnt about how some charity organizations ran the business...........Now I'm waiting for the call with a willing heart.
Remember the time Christ scolded the pharasees for giving legalistical tithes to the temple; but neglecting their parents. Christ always taught to help people. Since we are the temple now, it only makes sense to help people.
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I couldn't answer your question because I didn't understand your explanation.
It sounded to me as if you were trying to show that only 3.33% was the percent required per year for a total of 10% over 3 years. But percentages don't work in that way. If you give 3.33% of your increase in year one, and 3.33% of your increase in year two, and 3.33% of your increase in year three, then all you have given is 3.33% of your increase. Not 10%. You can't add 3.33% to 3.33% to 3.33% and arrive at a total of 10% tithe on your increase. It just doesn't work out mathematically. Sure, 3 X 3.33% does equal 10%, roughly, but paying it in the manner described doesn't equal 10% of your increase. It only equals 3.33% of your increase.
If you do not understand this principle then perhaps you would like to loan me some money to be repayed in a similar manner. I will pay you 10% for the use of the money. You give me 1/3 the first year and at the end of that year I will pay you 3.33% of that 1/3. In the 2nd year you give me another 1/3 and I will pay you 3.33% on the 2nd 1/3 at the end of the 2nd year. Likewise, for the 3rd year. Do you think that will equal 10% ROI? Without amortizating, what will be the simple interest you earned on your money?
For example:
At 3.33%
Year 1: $100 X 3.33% = $3.33 Year 2: $100 X 3.33% = $3.33 Year 3: $100 X 3.33% = $3.33 Total = $9.99
At 10%
Year 1: $100 X 10% = $10 Year 2: $100 X 10% = $10 Year 3: $100 X 10% = $10 Total = $30
There is a $20.01 shortage in the first accounting method.
Are you asking if tithe is merely 3.33% or just what are you asking? The word tithe mean tenth. Reference Leviticus 27:32, "And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD." Or, Genesis 28:22, "...and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."
This next verse in Numbers shows that tithe and tenth are equal. This is saying the Levite is to give a tenth of his tenth as tithe. He received a tithe (tenth) and he is to offer a tithe (tenth) of his increase to the Lord as well.
Numbers 18:26 "Thus speak <01696> (8762) unto the Levites <03881>, and say <0559> (8804) unto them, When ye take <03947> (8799) of the children <01121> of Israel <03478> the tithes <04643> which I have given <05414> (8804) you from them for your inheritance <05159>, then ye shall offer <07311> (8689) up an heave offering <08641> of it for the LORD <03068>, even a tenth <04643> part of the tithe <04643>."
STRONG'S
quote:04643 rsem ma`aser mah-as-ayr' or rsem ma`asar mah-as-ar' and (in pl.) fem. hrsem ma`asrah mah-as-raw'
from 06240; n m; {See TWOT on 1711 @@ '1711h'}
AV-tithe 27, tenth part 2, tenth 2, tithing 1; 32
1) tithe, tenth part 1a) tenth part 1b) tithe, payment of a tenth part
Now, if this is not helpful then please help me understand again what you are trying to figure out.
The tithing principle works a little differently than you understand it. The 10% for God is paid first before any other obligations. Now, Jesus promised us that if we sought to do the right thing without any thought for our clothes or food that He would see to it that our needs were met. We are not to worry if we run short. After all, God gave us life, isn't the body worth more than the clothing or the food? So, why would God give us life, a very great gift, and then deprive us of lesser gifts such as food and clothing that is necessary to sustain us? (Matt 6:24-33).
We are to have faith, Faith. Is that not why Christ said that God chose the poor to be rich in faith? Remember the widow's mite? Jesus said her gift was the greatest because she gave from her need. If Jesus admired her cheerful giving then that should inspire us to give even if it means we do without something we think is needful. Most people would consider me very generous in my giving but I have never given so much as to be in want. Have any of you ever given so much that you had to do without? I hope to grow to the place where I can give even more.
From the book Desire of Ages comes this explanation:
quote:Christ unsparingly condemned abuses, but He was careful not to lessen obligation. He rebuked the selfishness that extorted and misapplied the widow's gifts. At the same time He commended the widow who brought her offering for God's treasury. Man's abuse of the gift could not turn God's blessing from the giver.
Jesus was in the court where were the treasure chests, and He watched those who came to deposit their gifts. Many of the rich brought large sums, which they presented with great ostentation. Jesus looked upon them sadly, but made no comment on their liberal offerings. Presently His countenance lighted as He saw a poor widow approach hesitatingly, as though fearful of being observed. As the rich and haughty swept by, to deposit their offerings, she shrank back as if hardly daring to venture farther. And yet she longed to do something, little though it might be, for the cause she loved. She looked at the gift in her hand. It was very small in comparison with the gifts of those around her, yet it was her all. Watching her opportunity, she hurriedly threw in her two mites, and turned to hasten away. But in doing this she caught the eye of Jesus, which was fastened earnestly upon her.
The Saviour called His disciples to Him, and bade them mark the widow's poverty. Then His words of commendation fell upon her ear: "Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all." Tears of joy filled her eyes as she felt that her act was understood and appreciated. Many would have advised her to keep her pittance for her own use; given into the hands of the well-fed priests, it would be lost sight of among the many costly gifts brought to the treasury. But Jesus understood her motive. She believed the service of the temple to be of God's appointment, and she was anxious to do her utmost to sustain it. She did what she could, and her act was to be a monument to her memory through all time, and her joy in eternity. Her heart went with her gift; its value was estimated, not by the worth of the coin, but by the love to God and the interest in His work that had prompted the deed.
I remember once that I went without heat for a few weeks so that I could pay for another family to have their electricity turned back on in the dead of winter. But I didn't have to go without heat because I didn't have the money--because I did have the money. I went without heat so that my wife wouldn't miss the money. She was back east visiting her family at the time. It got cold but never went below the upper 40's in the house. But that experience helped me in many ways even though my suffering was artificially produced. I thought, as I looked at all the beautifully adorned houses, that if everyone could find it in their heart to turn off their Christmas lights, which they think honors God, they could afford to help someone in need, like this family that had their electricity turned off in December, and thereby truly honor God.
There is always room for giving. Even the poorest of families can save a little each week for someone who is worse off than themselves. And, there is never an excuse for not having enough to pay your tithe. Tithe is always the first to be paid. So, when it is time to pay tithe you have 100% of your money. You pay 10% to the Lord and have 90% left for you. Then you start to pay your bills out of the 90% left. You would be very surprised to find out that 90% goes even further than the 100%. Remember what God promised? Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." But we are to give cheerfully, not hoping for a return.
If we reason that to pay tithe will take away from our family then we are really in the same place as the Israelites who by Corban excused themselves from taking care of their parents because the temple tax took the money that would have been given to the parents. Thus, with human reasoning they were transgressing the law of God. Does this mean that we are obligated to one or the other only and that taking care of our parents is first and if we have some left then we pay tithe? No, and I don't believe that is what Jesus was teaching either. I believe Jesus was saying that both are required and that just because you pay the temple tax it doesn't excuse you from your duty to your parents.
From the same book:
quote:They set aside the fifth commandment as of no consequence, but were very exact in carrying out the traditions of the elders. They taught the people that the devotion of their property to the temple was a duty more sacred than even the support of their parents; and that, however great the necessity, it was sacrilege to impart to father or mother any part of what had been thus consecrated. An undutiful child had only to pronounce the word "Corban" over his property, thus devoting it to God, and he could retain it for his own use during his lifetime, and after his death it was to be appropriated to the temple service. Thus he was at liberty, both in life and in death, to dishonor and defraud his parents, under cover of a pretended devotion to God.
Now, as to your other question. The Priests stole from the poor because they created loophole in the law so that they could excuss the need for helping the poor with the tithe. Face it, they were greedy.
From the same book:
quote:The Pharisees had great influence with the people, and of this they took advantage to serve their own interests. They gained the confidence of pious widows, and then represented it as a duty for them to devote their property to religious purposes. Having secured control of their money, the wily schemers used it for their own benefit. To cover their dishonesty, they offered long prayers in public, and made a great show of piety. This hypocrisy Christ declared would bring them the greater damnation. The same rebuke falls upon many in our day who make a high profession of piety. Their lives are stained by selfishness and avarice, yet they throw over it all a garment of seeming purity, and thus for a time deceive their fellow men. But they cannot deceive God. He reads every purpose of the heart, and will judge every man according to his deeds.
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A Song of Praise, thankfulness, and tithing...
Psalm 66 1 ¶ <> Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands: 2 Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious. 3 Say unto God, How terrible art thou in thy works! through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee. 4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah. 5 Come and see the works of God: he is terrible in his doing toward the children of men. 6 He turned the sea into dry land: they went through the flood on foot: there did we rejoice in him. 7 He ruleth by his power for ever; his eyes behold the nations: let not the rebellious exalt themselves. Selah. 8 ¶ O bless our God, ye people, and make the voice of his praise to be heard: 9 Which holdeth our soul in life, and suffereth not our feet to be moved. 10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried. 11 Thou broughtest us into the net; thou laidst affliction upon our loins. 12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place. 13 ¶ I will go into thy house with burnt offerings: I will pay thee my vows, 14 Which my lips have uttered, and my mouth hath spoken, when I was in trouble. 15 I will offer unto thee burnt sacrifices of fatlings, with the incense of rams; I will offer bullocks with goats. Selah. 16 Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul. 17 I cried unto him with my mouth, and he was extolled with my tongue. 18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: 19 But verily God hath heard me; he hath attended to the voice of my prayer. 20 Blessed be God, which hath not turned away my prayer, nor his mercy from me.
Revelation 12:10 "...Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
Who is this accuser of the brethren? Obviously it refers to Satan.
What is the work of an accuser? To lead men to sin and then accuse them before God of being sinners.
What motivates the accuser? Self-righteousness! Always! Because, pointing out the faults of others elevates their perception of their own righteousness. Hear the prayer of the self-righteous person. "I thank God I am not like other men."
Why does Satan lead us to sin and then accuse us before God? So he can throw it up in God's face that his law is unfair. No one can keep it. So, if God does not relent, He will have to destroy the whole human race. But if He does relent, then he cannot destroy Satan either.
Here is a quote from "TruthorFables.com". Notice the author's twisted logic. He has dug a pit for others and fallen into himself.
quote:Note: The reason Abraham gave a tenth was because of God's deliverance of his enemies. We would call this tenth, "a thank offering". Abraham did not give tithe to Melchizedek from his personal possessions but from the spoils of war after rescuing Lot. Therefore we can see that Abraham was not following an unwritten tithe law when he gave tithe to the King of Salem. And besides, the Levitical tithe law did not include "spoils of war." Spoils of War were not included in the Levitical Tithe Law.
Now, he admits that Abraham gave a tenth (tithe) to the King of Peace but then tries to disguise it as not being a tenth (tithe) with some fancy dancing with semantics. The "spoils of war" were an increase from God because without God's help Abraham's little band of shepherders could never have defeated four kings with their maruading armies. When Abraham gave his "thank offering" he was paying tithe. There is a distinction made between obligatory tithe and freewill offering. This is definitely called tithe in this context.
Later, this same website gives us this brilliant deduction: "Jacob simply wanted to pay God to bless him with safety and prosperity!" What kind of god does he portray here? Certainly not an intelligent god. Certainly not the God I worship. What kind of god would make a deal which paid 10% ROI but cost 90% investment? That is a money loosing proposition for a money hungry god. Perhaps a god of stone or wood would fall for that agreement but surely not the God of Creation who owns the cattle on a thousand hills, no, the whole world! Do we barter with our God in this manner as this author suggests? No, certainly not. That is an insult to our Lord and our intelligence. It goes against the grain of the Christian experience. We don't pay God anything. We have nothing with which to pay him. He owns everything and gives to us freely out of his abundance. Are we now to believe that if we will return 10% to God that he thinks this is a fair exchange? How ridiculous.
I like to think of tithe paying in the example of a parent giving a child money to shop for Christmas presents. Do we give the child money so they can go out and buy us a gift? No, we can take all of the money and buy whatever we like. The parent is not dependent upon the child. The child is dependent upon the parent. The parent doesn't sit at home and fret, "O, I do hope my child buys me what I want. I am so helpless." No, we don't expect the child will buy us anything. But, how happy we are to see the child neglect self to buy gifts for others. And how it warms our hearts to know that they did not buy that gift they wanted but instead wanted to give us a special gift. We feel the love in their hearts when they give us that gift. It doesn't matter what the gift is. What matters is that from the heart our child chose to buy us a gift.
Now I ask again. Would a parent make such a deal with a child as the auther of this site suggests God did with Jacob? Would a parent ever reason thus? "I will give my child $100 so I can get $10. My, won't I be happy to get that $10? O, I hope they keep their word or I will have to do without." This silly reasoning make the parent subservient to the child and God subservient to Jacob.
Let's not be children any more carried away with every wind of doctrine. Paul clearly stated that the tithe was still valid in his day and that he had a right to expect to be paid for his labors in spiritual matters. "If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?" He argues this point many times but explains that he has chosen not to burden them so as to preach the word without hindrence of accusation. Read one such arguement recorded in 1 Cor. 9.
quote:NLT: 3This is my answer to those who question my authority as an apostle.[b] 4Don't we have the right to live in your homes and share your meals? 5Don't we have the right to bring a Christian wife[c] along with us as the other disciples and the Lord's brothers and Peter[d] do? 6Or is it only Barnabas and I who have to work to support ourselves? 7What soldier has to pay his own expenses? And have you ever heard of a farmer who harvests his crop and doesn't have the right to eat some of it? What shepherd takes care of a flock of sheep and isn't allowed to drink some of the milk? 8And this isn't merely human opinion. Doesn't God's law say the same thing? 9For the law of Moses says, "Do not keep an ox from eating as it treads out the grain."[e] Do you suppose God was thinking only about oxen when he said this? 10Wasn't he also speaking to us? Of course he was. Just as farm workers who plow fields and thresh the grain expect a share of the harvest, Christian workers should be paid by those they serve.
11We have planted good spiritual seed among you. Is it too much to ask, in return, for mere food and clothing? 12If you support others who preach to you, shouldn't we have an even greater right to be supported? Yet we have never used this right. We would rather put up with anything than put an obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 9:1 Greek Am I not free? b. 1 Corinthians 9:3 Greek those who examine me. c. 1 Corinthians 9:5 Greek a sister, a wife. d. 1 Corinthians 9:5 Greek Cephas. e. 1 Corinthians 9:9 Deut 25:4. f. 1 Corinthians 9:21 Greek those without the law. g. 1 Corinthians 9:26 Or I am not just shadowboxing.
I have been reading the material on the websites you provided in your post and responding to them. I just read the BibleInsight.com material and have these comments...
First, the author is trying to prove that physical tithing under the Old Covenant has now become spiritual tithing under the New Covenant. But some assumptions have been made, in support of this generally weak argument, which can be disputed easily had the author a correct understanding of the work of Jesus on earth. The author draws this partially erroneous conclusion regarding the reasons why Jesus compelled the leper to comply with the law of Moses after his cleansing:
quote:For the same reason he compelled tithing in Matthew 23:23. The Law of Moses was still in force during the life of Christ. It would have been 'sin' for Christ at this time to have taught against the Law of Moses!
What I believe to be a better explanation is that Jesus had established these precepts, through Moses, and would not now work against his own purposes and become a house divided. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He does not waiver as men do.
It was necessary that certain things be shadows of the true because the fullness of the time had not yet come. Until the true Lamb of God was slain and became our High Priest the Levitical priesthood remained with the animal sacrifices which pointed foreward to the coming Messiah. It should be very clear that these were shadows of the true and did pass away at the cross. However, the principle of tithing still exists today. Not because the Levitical priesthood requires it but because the principle which it originally supported still exists and will continue until the close of time.
There are those who dedicate their lives to the gospel work. They abandon their own abitions to serve the Lord with fulness of heart. They dedicate themselves to giving the gospel to others. It would be impossible for them to support their families and take care of their own needs unless God purposefully provided for their needs. The miracle that God performs to provide for their needs is the softening of hard, human, hearts, whom he blesses with material goods, to give cheefully to his cause.
This is the system that God established and codified in the Levitical law of tithe. It is a good system. Without it, God's army of workers would be divided in the attention. Many hours each day would have to be spent in providing for their own needs which would be a loss to the cause of God. While some workers do choose to provide for themselves we find an example where the apostles found it necessary to ordain deacons so that they could give themselves to prayer and the study of God's word.
What the author apparently does not understand is that Jesus came to confirm the New Covenant and then ratified it with his blood. All through the new testament we find Jesus confirming the new covenant while overturning the traditions of men, elevating the law, setting right examples regarding the Sabbath, and demonstrating the principle of love embodied in the law.
What is the new covenant? "I will write my laws in their hearts and minds." Jesus taught by precept and example that we are to take the law of God into our hearts. It is to shine outward to others as a light upon a hill. To love is to fulfill the law. To transgress the law is sin. God is love and sin, which breaks the law of God, separates us from him. We cannot love God and hate our fellow man. We cannot love God and transgress his law. We cannot know God without keeping his commandments. Jesus' life was the embodiment of the law of God. Love fulfills the law and Jesus did no sin. To take Jesus into the heart is to take the law of God into the heart. The word of God is profitable for our salvation. Jesus is the Word made flesh. His life fulfilled the law and the prophets. His life was the outward manifestation of the word of God written in his heart. He did not live by one word, nor by many words, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.
The book Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing has this to say about Christ's teachings. Using the example of oath taking, the author explains that Jesus lost no opportunity to teach truth. Read this example:
quote: The Jews understood the third commandment as prohibiting the profane use of the name of God; but they thought themselves at liberty to employ other oaths. Oath taking was common among them. Through Moses they had been forbidden to swear falsely, but they had many devices for freeing themselves from the obligation imposed by an oath. They did not fear to indulge in what was really profanity, nor did they shrink from perjury so long as it was veiled by some technical evasion of the law.
Jesus condemned their practices, declaring that their custom in oath taking was a transgression of the commandment of God. Our Saviour did not, however, forbid the use of the judicial oath, in which God is solemnly called to witness that what is said is truth and nothing but the truth. Jesus Himself, at His trial before the Sanhedrin, did not refuse to testify under oath. The high priest said unto Him, "I adjure Thee by the living God, that Thou tell us whether Thou be the Christ, the Son of God." Jesus answered, "Thou hast said." Matthew 26:63, 64. Had Christ in the Sermon on the Mount condemned the judicial oath, He would at His trial have reproved the high priest and thus, for the benefit of His followers, have enforced His own teaching.
There are very many who do not fear to deceive their fellow men, but they have been taught, and have been impressed by the Spirit of God, that it is a fearful thing to lie to their Maker. When put under oath they are made to feel that they are not testifying merely before men, but before God; that if they bear false witness, it is to Him who reads the heart and who knows the exact truth. The knowledge of the fearful judgments that have followed this sin has a restraining influence upon them.
If Jesus had intended for the physical tithe to be replaced by a spiritual tithe then he would not have lost the opportunity to teach this truth to his followers. We owe a spiritual tithe but it is not limited to merely 10% of what we know. Therefore it cannot be called a tithe because the word tithe means simply a tenth. Tithing pertains to earthly increase and was ordained by God as a method of sustaining the work. If we question why then we are not questioning mere men but God himself.
While it is true that some churches have misused the tithe, this is not the case in all situations. If you have no confidence in one doctor do you stop going to any doctor or do you find a reputable one? Hopefully, you find a reputable one. So with churches and ministries. If you lack faith in one ministry then choose another. But everyone of us is under obligation to support the work in one way or another. It is our duty, not to men, but to God. We have professed to join in league with Christ to give the gospel to the world. Let us do our part to fulfill our commission.
There is one scripture in the whole of the Bible which seems to tell us the time of Christ's second coming. It says, "This gospel of the kingdom must be preach in all the world, then shall the end come." Peter supports these words of Jesus when he writes, "God is not slack concerning his promises as some men count slackness. But he is unwilling that any be lost." Here we have a picture of our long-suffering Lord not wanting to close the work until all have had an opportunity to hear the gospel and either accept of reject it. Thus, if we truly want the Lord to come soon then we should be doing what we can to further the giving of the gospel to the ends of the earth. To every nation, tribe, tongue, people.
So where ever you pay your tithe it should further the work of spreading the gospel to the world. Is the gospel mere sermonizing? Here are the thoughts of one writer:
quote: All around us are heard the wails of a world's sorrow. On every hand are the needy and distressed. It is ours to aid in relieving and softening life's hardships and misery.
Practical work will have far more effect than mere sermonizing. We are to give food to the hungry, clothing to the naked, and shelter to the homeless. And we are called to do more than this. The wants of the soul, only the love of Christ can satisfy. If Christ is abiding in us, our hearts will be full of divine sympathy. The sealed fountains of earnest, Christlike love will be unsealed.
God calls not only for our gifts for the needy, but for our cheerful countenance, our hopeful words, our kindly handclasp. When Christ healed the sick, He laid His hands upon them. So should we come in close touch with those whom we seek to benefit.
There are many from whom hope has departed. Bring back the sunshine to them. Many have lost their courage. Speak to them words of cheer. Pray for them. There are those who need the bread of life. Read to them from the word of God. Upon many is a soul sickness which no earthly balm can reach nor physician heal. Pray for these souls, bring them to Jesus. Tell them that there is a balm in Gilead and a Physician there.
So, as you can see, there are many opportunities for us to minister to others and share the Light of the gospel, Jesus Christ. If it requires our monies, then that is ok, too. Right?
Sorry I should have made a disclaimer. I don't necessarily agree with every thing each of the authors state. I rarely ever suggest reading commentary, etc. However, I couldn't find my original study on tithing. It was way back before having a computer. Thus, handwritten or typed filed who knows where.
If you take the articles given and ignore the author's comments; but focus on just the scriptures given, you can get a good idea of tithing doctrine.
The old mosaic laws and ordances were done away with the old covenant replaced by the new. The ten commandments were not part of the old mosaic laws but were always in effect and still are today. Jesus said we should give from the heart out of love to help those in need. Since we are the temple of God, there is no temple to give to. His examples show who we give to and how much. Hint, how much is needed and how much to you have. You have two coats and someone needs a coat, what do you do?
And Paul gave us an example of paying preachers. He worked as a tent maker so he wouldn't be a burden on the people. At other times, he was in need and he let the people help him as a blessing to them for giving with a cheerful heart.
How would you suggest paying all the preachers since all in the kingdom are priests? Those of the HC do not see one man as their preacher. No hirelings.
Does anyone remember the thread about giving, especially relating to the workers for Christ? It was long long ago. I think Bruce W and I and some others were discussing it. I couldn't find it.
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Hi Jeff, My 1st post wasn't an explanation. To refresh your memory, I was asking if one can explain.....
quote:Let's do a little math here - what's the ratio of Israelites to Levites at the time when the tithing law was given? If you may turn to Numbers you probably will find that it's about 30:1. What's your point? You may ask. OK, let's say you are correct that the Israelites had to tithe to the levites every year. Let's say the average increase of one Israelite was 100 lambs - and let's say 90 were enough to feed the family and 10 were for tithing. How many would each Levite get each year? Yes, it's 300. He'd had to tithe to the Lord and that would leave him and his family 270 lambs. If they ate the same way as an average Israelite family did, they would have 180 excess at the end of each year. Well, who would take care of the excess? Did they take care of the 180 themselves or did they hire someone to do the job? Well, if you follow Deut 14:28 and 26:12, each Levite family would get 100 every year. 90 for the family and 10 for tithing - no excess, no shortage........
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May be we should suggest tithing at home church. What kind - tithing to the one who speaks in the Spirit at a gathering, to the use of one's home or to the poor? Well, we should do all three - if we apply OT to the present-day home church.
May be we should bring back sacrifice in the form of BBQ too - but no pork chop as it's detestable.
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