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Is Allah the same god as Jehova? Is Islam a religion as we in the United States define religion? Is it a threat? I ask these questions to cause you to think! Christianity is based on Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self Control. It is what Jesus Christ, The Prince of Peace, taught. Could Islam as it is practiced by the Radicals who caused 9/11/01 have been worshiping the same God? Would God have choosen a murderer, who had 15 or more wives (including a 9 year old girl), who fought in 66 battles to write his message? It is time for us to realize that they, the unnamed, invisible, followers of Islam have declared War against us. Most Christians in the Western World don't seem to get it. Please keep replies to less that 200 words.
Welcome to these parts, brother or sister. I like that "handle." You're the newest member, I see.
I'm not the spokeman here but I positively DO NOT believe that everyone, everywhere is following the same God and that all roads eventually meet in the eternal land of celestial bliss.
Jesus declared that those not for him were actually against him.
The answer is that Christians need to be communicating truth and love to those of ALL other faiths. Not only so but this must occur in an expeditious manner. Paul wrote: "some have not the knowledge of God - I say this to your shame." 1 Corinthians 15:34.
In the market place of ideas, the way of Jesus should rise to the top. Thus we welcome the opportunity to lovingly engage others by our lives and words. Yes, unbelievers are enemies but we are commanded to love such, knowing that we were also enemies as well.
In my view, the "clergy-laity" thing and the "building required" thing are hindering these goals.
There Christ says: 27 "But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
IF Islamic radicals caused 9/11, which we don't really know, where do we as Christians come into the picture? We don't have a responsibility there accept to love them, bless them, pray for them, and turn the other cheek.
On the other hand...our government has a whole different responsibility and agenda too.
No the god of Islam is not the same god as the God of the Bible. Not only have those of the Islamic religion declared war on Christians; but the world in general, including those false professors of Christianity, war against the true saints of God. They have for over 2,000 years in various degrees. Jesus warned in the world we would have persecution.
We are to love our enemies. Thus, we can see our own government has its agenda which is not that of Christian love; but of the world’s ways. The reason most “Christians” don’t get it, is that they are of the world, professing Christianity without the love of Christ in their hearts. The god of Islam and professing Christianity and all other religions worship the same god of the world; but not the one true God.
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I am not angry, I, too, love the sinner but not the sin. I don't believe yet that those that have replied sense the attack that has been made on us because we are Christians. The 19 people that caused all the trouble on 9/11/01 were enemies of Christ. There are many more in our midst that are just like them. Am I an alarmist? Yes, I am. We all need to study this problem and become proactive in witnessing to all who follow Isllam, not in confrontational manner, but with love and understanding that they follow Islam for the same reason that we follow Christ. We for the most part follow Christ because that is all we have ever known.
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I would have to say, Yes. In some cases those who worship Allah do worship Jehova. This is not the norm but I believe that those who desire to know the true God and worship Allah faithfully as best they know how may actually be reckognized as worshiping the one true God. I base this on the two following scriptures.
Acts 10:35
Romans 2:13-15
(Did you notice that the Gentiles which do by nature the things contained in the law show the work of the law written in their hearts? Where does the New Covenant write God's law? So are these then New Covenant believers?)
So it is those who do righteously that worship the true God. Remember we are the servant of the one we serve. This leaves many professing Christians worshiping another god which is no god.
Just like the little boy's prayers, "Lord, make the bad people good and the good people nice."
quote:The 19 people that caused all the trouble on 9/11/01 were enemies of Christ. There are many more in our midst that are just like them. Am I an alarmist? Yes, I am.
2 Tim. 3:1 (KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
John 16:33 (KJV) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Acts 14:22 (KJV) Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
John 15:19 (KJV) If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
The warning of attacks against Christians went out over 2,000 years ago and they have been under attack ever since then. What of Nero, the inquisition, those in China or Russia, etc., etc. There is no need to be alarmed; but rather persecution and tribulation are to be expected. We are to witness to all who follow other gods. And keep our eyes focused on things above remembering Christ is with us always.
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This story just in. It demonstrates again that many (not all) Islamists have no respect at all for other religions. Some even think it is OK to kill their fellow-Muslims if jihad is advanced in the process.
Time to earnestly pray, dear readers.
quote:ABDUL RAHMAN, a 41-year-old Afghan, was a Muslim for 25 years before he began working for an international Christian group helping his fellow countrymen in Pakistan. Within a couple of years he had converted to Christianity.
Fourteen years later, the decision may cost him his life....
News of his plight is likely to cause outrage in predominantly Christian countries such as Britain and America, whose troops are fighting to free Afghanistan from the religious zealotry of the Taleban.
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In reference to the scriptures posted earlier by Faith, what is the reason for the enmity between Christ-like people and the worldly in general?
Well, we know that there was war in heaven and the devil and his angels were cast out to earth. He rebelled against the kingdom of God. "The devil sinneth from the beginning." Rev 12:7-9; 1 John 3:8.
There is general war even among the worldly. But the war that is against the Christians is not actually against them but rather it is a continuation of the same war started in heaven. The war against the kingdom of God that was started in heaven is still the cause of the war against the saints on earth. Rev 12:17. This is the same war the carnal mind wages against God's kingdom. Rom 8:7.
quote:Originally posted by Believer: We all need to study this problem and become proactive in witnessing to all who follow Islam, not in confrontational manner, but with love and understanding that they follow Islam for the same reason that we follow Christ. We for the most part follow Christ because that is all we have ever known.
Believer,
Well said. However, is it our responsibility to witness to all who follow Islam? It seems clear to me that God does love all, yet the body of Christ is an "elect" group...the way I read the Bible. Thus and inheritly, many are not included in the end. Now I speak of this topic with much humility, b/c I have no qualification to be a part of the "elect"...but Jesus does, and He has helped me...and God has allowed me to recognize this. So I pray sometimes for Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, all other religions and I give them respect, b/c they follow "------" for the same reason that we follow Christ...NO. Because I was just like them, and still am in many ways. They're a human being...that's why. If you follow Christ because of culture and habit...you ought to examine that.
Christianity is very different from other religions...in fact, in my opinion, Christ is/was against religion. All other religions follow their code or law to get somewhere or obtain something: peace, enlightenment, virgins, higher levels, etc. However for the one and only God, He created the law to 1) show/teach us of our fallen nature, and 2) have Christ perfect it and remind us who God is and how much we need Him. The law was made for Christ alone...in terms of fullfilling it. SO we're not to follow a law, but to love, know, trust, and have faith in God through Jesus. We don't go to heaven b/c we earn it. We go to heaven b/c Christ earned it and God first loved us. This is radically different. We are to throw in the gloves, and let God be glorified...not perfect ourselves to be spiritual or whatever this world has to offer.
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Have any of you read any of the Quran? I have recently purchased a copy, not to follow Islam, but to determine for my self what Islam is. It is an eyeopener and I recommend that Christians read it. In my opinion it cannot be true and at the same time the bible be true. They are incompatable. The Quran refers to the bible constantly. It denies that Jesus is the Son of God. In my opinion, it is the word of Satain, while the bible is the Word of God.
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Have any of you read any of the Quran? I have recently purchased a copy, not to follow Islam, but to determine for my self what Islam is. It is an eyeopener and I recommend that Christians read it. In my opinion it cannot be true and at the same time the bible be true. They are incompatable. The Quran refers to the bible constantly. It denies that Jesus is the Son of God. In my opinion, it is the word of Satain, while the bible is the Word of God.
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What I know about the Koran and Islam is that it is very strict, very works, and very obedience oriented. It's like the Muslims picked up were the Pharisees and Sadducees left off. This is why Islam can point to Christians as infadels. We believe in a God who pardons us by grace. We don't follow a strict law to get to heaven. Jesus did. God gives the eternal gift that cannot be earned. Jesus was humble. This is what enrages them and gives them easy grounds to believe it's crazy and couldn't really be their Allah. And their right.
Again I'll quote my earlier verse from Luke 6:
quote:There Christ says: 27 "But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
This is little different than jihad eh? The work we are to do for God is LOVE.
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The following is an essay that I recently wrote. Regretfully it contains more than the 200 word limit I requested, but much of is is quoted directly, word for word, from the Quran. Pay particular attention to verse 35. In this verse the Quran denies that Jesus is the son of God. THE THREAT
Hitler, Stalin, and all the other dictators of the 20th century posed a threat to our way of life. Now there is a faceless enemy more dangerous, in my opinion, than all of the others combined.
They made a dramatic entrance in our country on September 11, 2001, and gave 9/11/01 a meaning of its own. What or who is this faceless enemy? It is a belief in the minds of people that practice Islam. They are creeping into all the Western countries that practice religious freedom. Will they succeed? Unless they are not only halted, but expelled from our shores they will at least make us uncomfortable. They will not tolerate other denominations in countries where they are majorty.
Do you think I am an alarmist? Yes, I am sounding an alarm. But, what is the answer. I believe we need to all sound the alarm. We need to educate ourself. Read the Koran and learn for yourself what they believe. Learn all you can from credible sources and support our political representatives to take appropriate action.
I want your feedback. I am not a bible scholar. I havent read the Koran, but I have just purchased a copy and I am discovering as I read that it is either false or the Holy Bible is false. The two are totally inconsistent. Here I quote directly from the Quran one of the most glaring of all inconsisities. It is their version of the birth of Jesus.
16. Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location. 17. While a barrier seperated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being. 18. She said, I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous. 19. He said, I am the messinger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son. 20. She said, How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste. 21. He said, Thus said your Lord, It is easy for me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter. 22. When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place. 23. The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, (I am so ashamed;) I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten. 24. (The infant) called her from beneath her, saying, Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you with a stream. 25. If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you. 26. Eat and drink , and be happy. When you see anyone, say, I have made a vow of silence; I am not talking today to anyone. 27. She came to her family, carrying him. They said, O Mary, you have committed something that is totally unexpected. 28. O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother unchaste. 29. She pointed to him. They said, How can we talk with an infant in the crib? 30. (The infant spoke and) said, I am a servant of GOD. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. 31. He made me blessed whereever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) for as long as I live. 32. I am to honor my mother; He did not make me a disobedient rebel. 33. And peace be upon me to day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected 34. That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt. 35. It does not befit GOD that he begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, Be, and it is. 36 He also proclaimed, GOD is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship him alone. This is the right path. 37. The various parties disputed among themselves (regarding the identity of Jesus). Therefore, woe to those who disbeleive from the sight of a terrible day. 38. Wait till you hear them and see them when they come to face us. The transgressors on that day will be totally lost. 39. Warn them about the day of remorse, when judgment will be issued. They are totally oblivious; they do not believe. 40. We are the ones who inherit the earth and everyone on it; to us everyone will be returned.
The above is quoted from 19: 16.40 from QURAN THE FINAL TESTAMENT [Authorized English Version] With the Arabic Text Revised Edition III . Translated from the Original by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D.
To some extint I feel like Chicken Little running in circles, screaming and shouting, THE SKY IS FALLING. What can we do? First, I believe we need a real leader that recognizes the seriousness of our situtation. What are your thoughts?
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According to Genesis 16, Ishmael was the son of the patriarch Abraham by the Egyptian handmaiden Hagar. When Abraham's supposedly barren wife Sarah finally bore Isaac, a rivalry developed between Sarah and Hagar and thus between the two half brothers, Isaac and Ishmael.
Cast out into the wilderness, Ishmael was the ancestor of the nomadic Arabian Ishmaelites, arranged, like the Israelites, into twelve tribes. Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all spiritual "children of Abraham."
I concur that there is a special resentment between Islam, Jews, and Christians as a result of the beforementioned story. It is unique and difficult to understand. None-the-less, I believe in the Bible. I believe that Jesus is the answer, and HE has power and will be the judge in the end times.
How should we as Muslims view the ' Earthquake ' that has happened recently?
How should we as Muslims view the earthquake that has happened recently? And is there a Hadith mentioning one of the signs of the end of time there will be three earthquakes? All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger, may Allaah exalt his mention as well as that of his family and all his companions. The happening of many earthquakes is among the minor signs of the Day of Judgement. The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said: "The Hour will not happen until knowledge will be uplifted and many earthquakes will take place." [Al-Bukhaari] Also, among the signs of the Hour is the occurrence of three major landslides. The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, when mentioning the ten signs of the Day of Judgement said: " and three major landslides, one in the East, one in the West and one in the Arabic peninsula..." [Muslim] The earthquakes and other signs in this universe are a lesson for the believer. Allaah frightens his slaves with such occurrences so a Muslim should take heed and repent, and fear that what happened to others could have happened to him because of his sins. Besides, among other lessons that a Muslim learns from such an incident is that in the eye of Allaah the creation will have no value when they disobey Him [He would careless if they are destroyed or vanish] and should remember by the occurrence of such earthquakes the horror of the Day of Judgement and the destruction that the whole universe will undergo.
Allaah knows best.
I answered: May I please ask a question? In the Christian teaching, one of the apostles of the Christ Jesus wrote after that they had been given the task to carry out His massage: "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the good news of God's Kingdom being available here and now?" I for one, am being humbled by God's faithfulness since the age of 16. Let us be thankful dear Muslim friends that we even know the meaning of words like "repent".
May I ask you dear Muslim friends, could we talk in this conversation until our Father in heaven silences us Himself and guides us with His wisdom to the obediance that will convince Hamas to come on board of our conversation and bring to an end the Palestinian misery and to give humanity the dawn of a new day?
As a Canadian citizen, we go on investing our tax money for the sake of building justice and peace in the Muslim world as well as hosting people from all over the Muslim world and yet, we officially became a nation in 1982 only!!! Can anyone tell me how come does a few decade old society has to help another one who feel compeled to exercise God's judgement all over the earth, instead of leaving it into the All Mighty's hand's to decide...such as the earth quake being discussed in this thread???
I dont need anyone to punish me nor my country for being an infidele. Our Fathrer in Heaven, the Lord of the worlds, can lokk after His own spanking.
On this present unprecedented event for humanity's work to eliminate distances which is being paid for by a Montreal family's private charity, I invite you here and now dear Muslim faithfull people, "can we make peace here and now as the Creator's children, in this forum, so that humanity may get out of its worst kind of poverty production alive at the moment in history in Palestine and Israel?
Our conversation might just be what is needed to simplify the life of all God's children on earth. The rest of humanity, we will inspire to join us, not beat them into submission. How's that as a proposal to make sense of our time on this forum and the 64 trillion that has been invested so that we can even have this conversation?Could you tell me if I am offensive to you with the following thoughts? http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A5896308
Elsewhere on the web, I write as follow in the hope to contribute a basis to approach one another based on intellectual honesty:
ABRAHAMS UNIVERSAL APPEAL
As a child of God, I become mature because all of me is engaged in the worshipping obedience that comes in response to God, as He makes Himself known to me as my adopting, heavenly, creating Father. A word used to express this sacrifice of worship is: "Muslim"!
Also, where from God reveals Himself within each one of His children, for the sacrifice of worship to happen in truth and in spirit, is known in the Bible as the inner most being and prophetically unveiled as the Holy of Holies in Zion.
Therefore, by historically accepted definitions, it is divinely safe to say in practical theory, that the maturity of God's family is to live out His appointed version of the Muslim-Zionist state...
The true and simple nature of the Covenant in the Christ as quoted in Heb. 8, 10-12, is given to humanity to become, among other equally proper definitions, a race of Muslim-Zionist...!!!...
PS: The same total application of the Covenant in the Christ is available to adapt with humanity from all genuine openings who seeks to find and to serve Love and Justice, in the fostering of eternity through time and space...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
quote: Cast out into the wilderness, Ishmael was the ancestor of the nomadic Arabian Ishmaelites, arranged, like the Israelites, into twelve tribes. Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all spiritual "children of Abraham."
I noticed you said that Muslims, Jews and Christians are all spiritual children of Abraham.
Since they were all ancestors of Abraham, they would be physical children of Abraham. Abrahams physical seed. Not all Christians would fall into that category for many of them come from Gentile ancestry.
It is important to realize that those of a physical lineage are not necessarily those of Gods spiritual children. Look at the following passages.
Those called spiritual children or even the seed of Abraham in reference to the spiritual children of God are not of the physical (circumcision) lineage only; but are those that walk in faith, the same faith that Abraham had.
Romans 4:12-13 (KJV) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. [13] For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
If the heirs of the kingdom are only those of the law, the faith is void and the promise no good. Faith and grace are the way one becomes a spiritual seed. It has nothing to do with physical lineage.
Romans 4:14-16 (KJV) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: [15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. [16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
I think this passage in Rom. 9 is the most clear. Not all Israel is Israel. Often people speak of Israel as the chosen people of God. However, it is clear that not all those of the physical nation of Israel are the spiritual Israel of God. Those who are children of the flesh (that would be unbelievers) are not the children of God.
Romans 9:6-8 (KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The gospel is very clear. There is one way into Gods kingdom. Jesus is the door and no one enters by any other means, not even physical lineage. The kingdom of God will surely be made up of many nations, x- Jews, x-Gentiles,x- Muslems, etc. All who enter by Christ Jesus will be the true seed of Abraham and the true chosen of God, regardless of their national status or ancestry.
John 10:1-2 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. [2] But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:7 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:9 (KJV) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
quote:Since they were all ancestors of Abraham, they would be physical children of Abraham. Abrahams physical seed. Not all Christians would fall into that category for many of them come from Gentile ancestry.
...then...
quote:All who enter by Christ Jesus will be the true seed of Abraham and the true chosen of God, regardless of their national status or ancestry.
quote:Cast out into the wilderness, Ishmael was the ancestor of the nomadic Arabian Ishmaelites, arranged, like the Israelites, into twelve tribes. Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all spiritual "children of Abraham."
I quoted that from a website and did not read it close enough. Yes, I would revise the last sentence. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are either decendents of Abraham, or spiritual "children of Abraham" ...which includes the gentiles like myself. This was a purely historical comment.
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cast out into the wilderness, Ishmael was the ancestor of the nomadic Arabian Ishmaelites, arranged, like the Israelites, into twelve tribes. Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all spiritual "children of Abraham." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This was a purely historical comment."
I agree as well that the sentence is a historical comment. History and the New-Testament meet when Abraham meets with Melckizedek. This blessing sealed Abraham as the father of the faith and all families were being blessed of the Lord from that day on. That history is where there is ground for all to meet upon, to seek and to find together the presence of God and to learn from Him, what path to take for His justice and peace to come in each heart.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
You mentioned spiritual children as Jews, Muslims, and Christians and that they all traced their physical lineage from Abraham. A lot of Christians physical lineage is not from Abrahams physical line as they were Gentiles. Only Jews and Moslems can trace their physical lineage to Abraham. Christianity is not a physical lineage.
Ones physical lineage has nothing to do with ones spiritual position. One becomes the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith in Christ regardless of what ones physical lineage is.
Regarding this statement:
quote: Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all spiritual "children of Abraham."
The way your statement was worded, I was not sure if you realized that physical and spiritual lineage are two completely different things. Physical Jews and Muslims are not spiritual children of Abraham unless they have faith in Christ and then they become Christians. Also Gentiles are not spiritual children until they have faith in Christ and become Christians.
quote:Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
BUT there is MORE:
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Oh, that those of every nation would bow now before Him before it is everlastingly too late. Let us all meet one another at the foot of His cross and acknowledge if left to ourselves we would hate and eventually kill one another. And let us lead others to Him until the day comes when neighbor will not say to neighbor: Know the Lord - they shall already know Him from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8:11.
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I started this topic with the question,"Is God Jehova the same as Allah?". Now, the Muslims that believe in the Quran rather than the Bible believe in Allah. Christians BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD, WAS CRUCIFIED, ROSE FROM THE GRAVE AFTER THREE DAYS, AND AFTER BEING SEEN NUMEROUS TIMES ASSENDED TO HEAVEN. The Quran is quoted as follows: "And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messinger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him--they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess on knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him." 4:157
Now, I, BELIEVER, state my belief. I am not a KNOWER so take this only as an opinion of one person.
Any religion, person or book that states that Jesus is not the SON OF GOD, that Jesus was not crucified, is blasphemous. Unless they convert to Christanity they are enemies of Christanity.
quote:I started this topic with the question,"Is God Jehova the same as Allah?".
This is why I make the comment about the history.
quote:Cast out into the wilderness, Ishmael was the ancestor of the nomadic Arabian Ishmaelites, arranged, like the Israelites, into twelve tribes. Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are either decendents of Abraham, or spiritual "children of Abraham"
Furthermore as we have discussed, we are spiritual children of Abraham because we are saved through Christ Jesus; Son of God. We therefore grafted into the one true Vine; Jesus Christ.
I make these comments to point out the special history concerning Jehova and Allah. Christians, including myself, believe Jehova is the one true God. Christ is His Son. We have life and forgiveness through no other person. I agree. However, the Muslim argument is much more founded than any other. Muslims actually have an argument that is of historical basis. This makes it distinct to all other comparitive religions even though it is faulty.
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Since starting this discussion, I have read more of the Quran. It seems to me that the translation from Arabic to English for "Alliah" is "God" because it uses "God" constantly and "Alliah" is not used at all. The main difference between Isham and Christianty is the question of who Jesus Christ is. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God", born of the virgin, Mary, in a stable in the presence of his earthly father, Joseph, in Nazereth and that he he was crucified, died, was in the grave three days, rose from the grave and after forty days ascended to his Heavenly Father, and sent the Holy Spirit who is with us today. Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was merely a messinger on the same level as all the Prophets, including Muhammad. They do not believe Mary was a virgin. They believe that Jesus was born under a palm tree alone at an undisclosed location, and that Jesus actualy talked to Mary as a newborn infant giving her comfort. They do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, or that He was crucified, or that he rose from the grave after three days. Therefore, Muslims call Jesus Christ a liar because Jesus himself claimed to be the Messiah, and the Son of God.
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Since starting this discussion, I have read more of the Quran. It seems to me that the translation from Arabic to English for "Alliah" is "God" because it uses "God" constantly and "Alliah" is not used at all. The main difference between Isham and Christianty is the question of who Jesus Christ is. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God", born of the virgin, Mary, in a stable in the presence of his earthly father, Joseph, in Nazereth and that he he was crucified, died, was in the grave three days, rose from the grave and after forty days ascended to his Heavenly Father, and sent the Holy Spirit who is with us today. Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was merely a messinger on the same level as all the Prophets, including Muhammad. They do not believe Mary was a virgin. They believe that Jesus was born under a palm tree alone at an undisclosed location, and that Jesus actualy talked to Mary as a newborn infant giving her comfort. They do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, or that He was crucified, or that he rose from the grave after three days. Therefore, Muslims call Jesus Christ a liar because Jesus himself claimed to be the Messiah, and the Son of God.
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While the words may translate the same, the god of Islam is not the same God of the Bible. We must have seen Christ to know the Father for the Father and Son are one. Remember there are many false gods. There is a difference in the word and the actual being of the one true God.
John 14:9 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 10:30 (KJV) I and my Father are one.
Those who reject Christ as a liar are indeed calling God the Father a liar too. They do not believe God or Christ.
Matthew 7:14 (KJV) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
John 10:9 (KJV) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
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I still feel the need to press the historical context on this whole topic. Muslims do not believe Jesus is who He is and that is their problem, agreed. It is through Christ alone that we have forgiveness and atonement. However, let's put aside the new testament, just for argument's sake, and examine Islam along side Christianity through the coarse of history.
quote:Cast out into the wilderness, Ishmael was the ancestor of the nomadic Arabian Ishmaelites, arranged, like the Israelites, into twelve tribes. Islam traces its lineage from Abraham through Ishmael. Judaism and Christianity trace their lineages through Isaac.
Muslims and Jews of the old testament are decendants of Abraham.
If we filter the above religions and extract only religions PRE-CHRIST that believe in their "One True God", we are left with Judaism and Islam...and both lead back to the same ancestor Abraham. That is the historical point I've been trying to make.
So when we answer the question "Is Allah the same god as Jehova?" we must contrain the question. I definitely believe that both Jews and Muslims believe they are worshiping their "One True God." However, the TRUTH as some have so beligerently stated is that today, now, the way it currently stands...Jesus is the way and the life and no one comes unto the Father ("One True God") except through Christ. Thus even the Jews, though they believe in the actual "One True God" Jehovah, they must still put their faith in the Messiah (Christ Jesus), and so must the Muslims.
"though they believe in the actual "One True God" Jehovah, they must still put their faith in the Messiah (Christ Jesus), and so must the Muslims"
The contrast being made with "though they believe" and "they must still put their faith" implies that there is beleiving that they can do to change what is needed so that then, the one true God can move in and do His thing.
BELEIF AND FAITH ARE MADE TO COMPLETE ONE ANOTHER BUT ARE NOT THE SAME
Belief is from the nervous energy by which we can reason, conclude, make up our mind and have an opinion of our own, with or without the truth. Beleif brings us to sound conclusions of our own. Then comes the need to know that I am known in such a way as I may also know that I know. This need gets me seeking from where thirst and hunger only grows until God finds me where I am looking for Him (all though I might not be aware that what I am looking for is God) and also, once He finds me, of course I find God where He is looking for me. This is when revelation draws belief into Faith. This distinction leads to observe the two opposing accesses at the basic fundamental levels of sourcing the human thought generating and processing, and consequently, this is the very point to determine the degree of health of personal identity development and interactive qualities in the simplicity of the devotion to Christ-Jesus by His Spirit. The spirit-driven mind is the experience of organic-spiritual unity where all qualities of living are given by the Spirit. The soul-driven mind is where belief remains independant of the revelation of Faith. Such knowledge turns societies into herds of peer pressured humans, spending our existence under the "peacefully oppressed order" of military intelligence, so as to maintain the animal soul driven nature of humanity under check. Psychiatry is only just coming to terms with the conclusive observations in the curative powers of Faith for a variety of conditions where the patient is relieved from past beliefs that find themselves at the root of the condition that needs treated. From Faith, the mind is at peace with an imaginative screen that feeds from the balanced creative participation of both, the subjective and the objective state of being fully developing together, into the revelation of being relevant at the source of being one with all in all.
Therefore the response I seek to provide is the simplicity of His Presence and of His Voice, so that whenever or wherever anyone asks any question concerning God, He is then always available to be pin pointed amongst His own human manifestation of His Promised Covenant of Justice, Peace and Joy by the Spirit..."for he/she who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." The reward of seeking after Him is to know Him and to commune at the Source of Being, Identity and Presence.
I have met people whose lives demonstrate such personal and intimate knowledge of God because of the self-control driven by love, truth, justice and wisdom in all aspects of their life experience and who yet, did not know that the Spirit of Christ was the One Who was guiding them. Watchman Nee describes such a man who said to him after accepting the gospel: "This is the first time I hear of the gospel and of the Lord Jesus-Christ but this is the second time I meet with God". There is an election of God that belongs to God alone and it is by the love manifested for one another that we are to recognise His presence amongst humans. For even if we have known Christ in the flesh, we do not know Him like this any more. The senses used by the old man to know someone are not relevant to the spiritual reality of being a child of God and an overcomer of the Christ-Jesus. I fear that much of our standing up for God and for the gospel does not add up to more than what we describe of the Muslim or the Jews or any other set of beliefs. The true faith we are given by the revelation of the gospel has no limits other than Christ Himself in all His glory and power. When two or three of us are gathered in His name, there He is with us. It is a matter of two different natures, which are connected to two different sources and somewhere, the nature that feeds from the revelation of God does not need the contribution of any belief what so ever, for belief is from my capacity to reason apart from the mouth of God's words. Obediance is the simplicity of being empowered by God the Spirit into the yes of Christ, working with God to establish His no by moving against the prevailing of the gates of hell. For such depth to happen in reality, man does not live with bread alone but with every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Please notice, from the mouth of God, not from the book of God. Hearing God is the source of Faith. I thank God for the bible, don't get me wrong but the word that proceeds out of His mouth requires that God Himself gets to first dwell into my heart and spirit; my mind that can read the bible comes after, as a result of the Covenant being activated to be my source. Once my heart and spirit are feeding from the mouth of God, then I am equipped with the empowering life to not be comformed to this world and to be transformed by the renewing of my mind. The mind is connected to the soul, to the body and to the unregenerated heart. Trying to regenerate the heart with the understanding of the mind is what belief, religion and philosophy are all about. They all add up to efforts from the energies of the old man. It is like asking something solid that I hold in my hand to stay in the air after letting go of it. Gravity takes over and brings it to the ground. The wings of eternal life's liberty are from the law of the spirit of life Who sets us free from the law of sin and death. As soon as we speak from the mechanics of intellectual memory of scriptures, we short circiut the Spirit of life from touching and from giving life through our speaking. For all vain words that men shall speak, we shall be judged. Our words are not in vain when we take the time to let the Spirit show us who we speak to and how this person or this crowd or such and such event or circumstance can be moved spiritually. Can we get on to pray as overcomers instead of conquerers of the people for whom we take time to explain with such vigor to ourselves as if we just finished climbing on top of the hill of the best beleif systems.
PRAYER Dear Lord, show us how to commune with You and each other in the way You mean us to and give us to discern between ours and Your concern for all that is lost and in need of Your saving grace. Do speak up within each one of Your children and silence us by Your presence, so that we may learn to sail upon the waves of Your voice's power, taking Your obediance directly from our heart and spirit to our soul and body, for the blessing and the redeeming of all whom we are in You and all that our eyes and ears come in comtact with. Bring and keep each one of us in the boundaries of Your pleasure; not what we hink might be Your pleasure but like Mary versus Martha, bring us to where we hear You and see Your glory, that we may be one as You are one with the Father and the Spirit. Raise the sacred fire of Your worship with such might that our sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving may be able to sustain any and all levels of adversity yet to come against Your elected ones. Fill up our lantern, so that we be not distracted from our waiting for You in the blessed virginity of Your bride. Do reach all of Abraham's children and all whom are blessed because of the blessing You bestowed on him by the King of justice and the King of peace Melkizedek, regarding all nations and families of the earth. Make us aware of what it means to be citizens of the new Jerusalem and make good use of the groanings that we are going through with Your Spirit, for lack of a proper means of expression. Teach us the graceful acceptance of drinking the cup that no one can stand having to drink and yet, as You did pray for the cup to be removed from You, You did drink it and told us that we too, were going to have a cup to drink. Guide us to where our drinking of that cup becomes filled with such praise and thankgiving from our devotion to You, that the Church shall awake across the whole earth, causing the repentance and conversion to open up the way for Your revelation to take hold of entire nations at the time. Thank you for the tools to communicate at the speed of thought. Show us all how to let You speak to us here and now from deep within each one and do voice Yourself into our being and living as well as onto the Internet, along with all other tools You've given us for Your dwelling amongst humans and to inspire the perpetual celebration of Easter. Keep us rejoicing in You I pray...amen to Your yes...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
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The God that Christians worship cannot be the same as the God that the Muslims worship. Why? The God they serve, Allah, requires violence tothe point of murder for those that do ont believe. Our God is a God of peace that depends on His subjects to come to Him our of persuasion and love.
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