posted
the world view of the universe today is that the sun is the center of our galaxy and that we daily revolve around the sun. the world view is that the universe is ever expanding and goes on pretty much infinitely and is billions of years old. the world view questions the authority and power of scripture. the world view has been attacking the scriptures for hundreds of years. i, however, believe against the world view. i believe in a geocentric universe. with this i mean that i believe the earth to be the center of the universe, is stationary, and that everything else revolves around the earth. the geocentric universe goes against the world view of today, but it goes along with the Biblical view. the Bible supports a geocentric universe and shows nothing but. what is the importance of the geocentric beliefs? since the discreditting of the geocentric beliefs by the scientific community, there has been countless attacks on the authority and power of scripture and thus has spawned many non-Biblical, non-Christian ideas which have reached further than just the universe. with the implimentation of geocentricity, it would force people to realize that there is a creator and that the universe is not as old, or as big, or as randomly haphazard and non-created as the scientific and 'world view' says today.
posted
SPIRITcentric is what the earth is, not GEOcentric.
nicodemus snow says: "with this i mean that i believe the earth to be the center of the universe, is stationary, and that everything else revolves around the earth." Such a statement cannot be accepted in 2006 other than being scary as to what kind of other such statements and even worse, what kind of attitudes might lie behind such position.
Nicodemus snow says: "there has been countless attacks on the authority and power of scripture and thus has spawned many non-Biblical, non-Christian ideas which have reached further than just the universe"
Great because only the truth can prevail sooner or later. Each time that the truth is being attacked, God and His people are given an opportunity to shake all matters of the given concern and to reduce it to complete clarity, where the corruptible is shaken off and when we are left with the truth in all that God has to offer with it. Praise God All Mighty for each attack, for this is how light moves into darkness and that we learn to be overcomers by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony!
Also, in light of such revelation, is there such a thing as Christian ideas? The Christ I know is someone and who He is to me is not an idea but the Source of my being who I am, supplying me with the power of faith, the love from a pure heart and the wisdom of a good conscience.
The transformation that comes from the renewing of our mind goes on to make of ideas to be debated on there own, a thing of the past nature, where death rules. Once my mind is transformed, I do not simply have random ideas for I now live by faith, by which revelation substanciates hope and gives the assurance of the unseen from the Alpha to the Omega. I then am equipped to discern the will of God, that which is good, perfect and agreeable. Ideas have a source and our safety lies in Him Who fills all in all. Such reality does not come from ideas but from the experience that "this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. If I am reduced to trying to figure out ideas, then my struggle demonstrates that I am not living from and abiding in the glory(Presence) which God gave to Jesus and that He gives us now, here on earth, so that the darkness of sin and death may not prevail along with the gates of hell, anywhere that there is a child of God.
I leave you with 1 Thess 5, 14-28: But we exhort you, brethren, admonish the disorderly, comfort the faint-hearted, sustain the weak, be patient towards all. See that no one render to any evil for evil, but pursue always what is good towards one another and towards all; rejoice always; pray unceasingly; in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus towards you; quench not the Spirit; do not lightly esteem prophecies; but prove all things, hold fast the right; hold aloof from every form of wickedness. Now the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly: and your whole spirit, and soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is faithful who calls you, who will also perform it. Brethren, pray for us. Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss. I adjure you by the Lord that the letter be read to all the holy brethren. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
this belief in a geocentric universe is not just an idea but a reality. it also is not just a 'random idea' as benoit would call it. calling geocentricity a 'random idea' is basically calling God's words 'random ideas'. i live by faith completely and have faith that God is true to his word and his word says that he made a geocentric universe. i agree completely with benoit's ideas that truth will be revealed through attacks. this is true, and the universe has been under attack for quite some time and the truth of geocentricity is standing fast. but attacks are not always benefitial when Christians and the rest of the world are believing in these attacks. when Christians begin to accept the inferiority of scripture and when Christians have to explain scriptures to worldy 'ideas' instead of the other way around, it is not benefitial but detrimental and hazardous. since God does not reveal everything through revelation and since we should not 'reduce' ourselves (as Benoit says) to figuring out things, then what are we to do? are we to live in darkness knowing nothing of what God's word says? are we to just accept everything which the world tells us and start believing lies which are contrary to God's word? let me pose just one more question. benoit says that such a statement as geocentricity cannot be accepted in 2006...why? why can truth not be accepted in 2006?
posted
Could you provide the biblical references of which you speak that say and confirm that the planet earth is the centre of the universe?
Also you say: "since God does not reveal everything through revelation..." Revelation is the very work of God's work so that His word may go from out of His mouth and to be ministered to me, personaly and to us communally. "The words I have spoken to you are life and spirit", Jesus says. "I am the bread of life", He also says. How else does faith feeds the Cross from our heart and spirit down to our soul and body on the continious basis that we need for regeneration and obediance from the power of resurrection, which God put in our hearts and spirits? Revelation is the pulsation of the Holy Spirit into our spirit and heart rendering each child in position of potential overcomer. The just shall live by faith and "the work of God is that you believe in the one whom He has sent," Jesus says. Maybe that we do not speak from the same grasp of the word revelation but after explaining myself, you may apreciate that when you say: "since God does not reveal everything through revelation..." that it sounds to me like: "since living does not need life to exist" or "since breathing does not require to inhale and exhale". It just does not fit with the simple spiritual reality that the new Covenant is all about, which is God's ongoing revelation by which He is present within each child of His and in the assembling of us all who are His own. Eph 1, 15-23: Therefore I also... do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all."
Thank you to "hear" me out nicodemus snow...
Dear Lord, do bless our contact with Your growth to all who read this exchange; in Jesus name, the Christ our Lord I pray...amen to Your Yes...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
here are some references from the Bible which relay a geocentric universe: (i will only briefly explain for the convenience of my time. if you are confused or have any questions or objections, just let me know)
-the order of creation: God first created the earth before he created the sun, moon, and stars. logically, the first thing that is created is naturally the center of the creation and everything else revolves around it. if the sun is the center of our galaxy, then God would have created the Earth and just have it stationary until the sun came into existence. he would have had to jump-start the earth's rotations and orbit once he created the sun. obviously, God could do this, but it doesn't make sense. God is not a God of disorder but of order.
-Joshua 10:12-13: 12 On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."
13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on [b] its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.
in these verses it obviously shows a geocentric universe. it says that the sun stopped. for the sun to stop, it would have to be moving. many people today explain this verse away by saying that it is only from the human perspective that these verses are written. it only appears that the sun stopped, but in actuality the earth was the one which stopped. fist, since the scriptures (as i think benoit would agree) are inspired by God and God's own words, then this passage could not be from the human perspective. since the actual words of when it says the sun stopped are in the narrative it cannot be from joshua's perspective and thus must be inspired by God. to say that this verse is talking about the earth moving and not the sun, is practically calling God a liar. however, for those that don't believe that scripture is completely God breathed, there is still evidence that shows a completely geocentric universe. let's consider the situation using both the human perspective and modern cosmology, as most people today use. this would mean that an earth, which is considered to rotate at 1040 mph and revolving around the sun at speeds ranging from 1000 mph to 660,000,000 mph, would have had to stop rotating and revolving instantly. this would mean complete natural chaos upon the entire earth. such things as the magnetic fields would be completely disturbed, and thus would disturb the atmosphere, the core would be thrown off, the movement would have definitely been felt (but there is no record of it), and countless other natural disasters would have happened. obviously God could have done this and kept the earth completely normal, however it does not say that in the Bible, and also as i said before, God is a God who has order and who does not create chaos.
-Isaiah 38:7-8: 7 " 'This is the LORD's sign to you that the LORD will do what he has promised: 8 I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the ten steps it has gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.' " So the sunlight went back the ten steps it had gone down. -2 Kings 20:8-11: 8 Hezekiah had asked Isaiah, "What will be the sign that the LORD will heal me and that I will go up to the temple of the LORD on the third day from now?"
9 Isaiah answered, "This is the LORD's sign to you that the LORD will do what he has promised: Shall the shadow go forward ten steps, or shall it go back ten steps?"
10 "It is a simple matter for the shadow to go forward ten steps," said Hezekiah. "Rather, have it go back ten steps."
11 Then the prophet Isaiah called upon the LORD, and the LORD made the shadow go back the ten steps it had gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.
both of these passage are talking about the same event. Hezekiah's sign was that the sun would be moved back ten degrees. this meant that God actually moved the sun back in the sky ten degrees. my arguments are similar to those mentioned with Joshua's long day and thus i will not repeat them. however, i will point out that with Hezekiah's case, it is a much more extreme example of my points above. i say this because using modern thought, the world would have had to stop its rotations and revolutions and actually do them in reverse. it makes more sense what the scriptures say about the sun stopping and moving instead of the earth.
-Habakkuk 3:11: 11 Sun and moon stood still in the heavens at the glint of your flying arrows, at the lightning of your flashing spear. -1 Chronicles 16:30: 30 Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.
there are dozens of other verses that have the language of a geocentric universe. these are only a few examples but they are solid and the most easily shown examples of geocentricity. if anyone would like non-scriptural referenced examples of geocentricity, pulled straight from science, let me know and i will provide as many example as is necessary.
about benoit's thoughts of revelation i will clear up our misunderstandings. benoit appears to be explaining a purely spiritual revelation and i was talking about a revelation of knowledge. they are two different things and that is where we misunderstood each other with the word revelation. if there is any confusion, questions, or rude remarks about geocentricity and its relevance to Christianity, just add a reply with whatever you need.
posted
On the Joshua example, how about the whole universe was stopped. Not just the sun and the earth but the whole material world was halted in its track for God to make His point? The only centre of the universe is the Lord Himseelf who uphold all matters by His glory, at the very centre of each mollecule. As I sais, the universe is spirit-centered and not geocentered. Intepretation by personal assupmtion is what you do. That's how we end up with over 50,000 denominations in United States alone. This is made clear when you say: "benoit appears to be explaining a purely spiritual revelation and i was talking about a revelation of knowledge". Revelation of knowledge cannot be separated from spiritual revelation if it is from God. The only knowledge that is separated from the Spirit is the promise of the devil to Adam and Eve and to all of humanity that we would become like God. That is the geocentricity of the flesh, the world and of the enemy of God for whom revelation of knowledge is independent from God as its source. I am sure that this not what you mean but this is where your explainations are going. Jesus repeated often: "Let those who have ears to hear, to hear, let those who have eyes to see, see". Some do, some dont and from this, we know who is who. The renewed mind does not work our brains in the same way as the old man's mind does. The subtleties between the subliminal activations of the fallen nature's knowledge acqiusition and the crystal clear revealing nutrition of the Spirit that feeds us with life are only veiled when the veil is there. "Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord." 2Cor 3, 16-18 This touches directly into Jesus admonition-exhortation when He said: "But *ye*, be not ye called Rabbi; for one is your instructor, and all *ye* are brethren. And call not [any one] your father upon the earth; for one is your Father, he who is in the heavens. Neither be called instructors, for one is your instructor, the Christ. But the greatest of you shall be your servant. And whoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled, and whoever shall humble himself shall be exalted. Mt 23, 8-12 To me, this passage shows how much importance our Lord gives to who and how, what knowledge comes to His children who grow to be disciples of Jesus upon the earth. Our presence and communion in such maturity is the gravitational cause of the universe with God in our midst, from glory to glory!!! Whereas geocentric goes, it all seems to depend on one's point of view. I'd rather keep mine with the eys of the Lord's current and ongoing revelation. The eyes, ears and all other faculties and senses of Jesus-Christ are here, in each one of His people by His Spirit. Let us not go on clouding God's glory by our articulate views, issued from our brain, knowing independetly from revelation, for that is how and where the Church cannot overcome the multiplying divisions of christianity.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
i agree with benoit when he says that the whole universe was stopped at the joshua example. the earth, however, had no need to stop because it is at the center of the universe. benoit i ask that when you reply to my message that you do not bring in things which are irrelevant or completely unrelated to the topic which i was talking about. this causes confusion, frustration, and makes no sense. an example of this is when you say, "The only centre of the universe is the Lord Himself." firstly, i started out and continued throughout each reply talking about a material center of the universe. your statement is trying to bring in a spiritual aspect and make God apart of his own creation. secondly, God is not the center of the universe. i say this because God is in all of creation and is everywhere and thus cannot be the center. also, to say that God is the center of the universe is to say that he is part of the universe. a creator cannot be part of something that he has created. since this statement says that God is part of the universe, it would be rightly concluded to say (from this statement) that God is part of this fallen world and thus is fallen himself. to say this is complete evil. so please, benoit, when you reply to my words, do not bring in material that is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. i am not here to discuss theology on this topic (though i would if you brought the theology correctly into the context of the arguement), i am here to discuss geocentricity plain and simple. benoit, the revelation which you are talking about, whether knowledge or spiritual, is a revelation that is purely edifying to oneself and building up of oneself or ones spiritual aspect of their life. i am talking about a different revelation. God reveals things to us, through both spiritual and knowledge about the characteristics of himself and of his creations. i believe that the knowledge revelations have an impact on ones spiritual life, but that is not its sole purpose (as the revelation which benoit talks about). these revelations are purely to show the greatness and glory of God. in the passage which benoit posted, Mt 28:8-12, its last line talked about humbling oneself. what a humbling experience to say that everything that you have been taught your entire life is false and that God is indeed correct...that everything you knew to be true was wrong...that practically the entire world is completely wrong and following a false assumption about the entirety of the universe. i agree with benoit when he says that we should see through the eye's of the Lord in order to form our point of view. i completely agree with that. i also agree with benoit that we should not any longer cloud God's glory. however, i ask this one thing benoit...what do you believe the universe is like? do you believe in geocentricity or ascentricity (the idea that there is no center to the universe and that it is ever continuing to grow), or some other kind of universe? for if you do not believe in geocentricity, then you are clouding God's glory with your articulate views. i say this because anything besides geocentricity, is something which has not been revealed through God and thus is just 'articulate views, issued from out brain' and thus is clouding God's glory (according to benoit). God's word, as benoit has said, is part of God's revelation to us and in God's word there is nothing except a geocentric universe. there are several questions which i would like to ask benoit. first, what do you think our brain is for? second, do you believe that trying to figure anything out is useless and essentially evil? (do you believe that figuring out a calculus problem is evil because God did not reveal the answer to you?) thirdly, what of the scriptures which i pointed out to you, what do you make of them? you did not discuss scripture whatsoever in your last reply (except scriptures which were out of context and had no bearing on the discussion) and you did not take into account God's own word when refuting my geocentric beliefs.
posted
I apologise for being off topic to you. The point of all that I say, write and witness is that the Lord is sufficient with His grace and that if it is relevant for Him that I know about the earth being geocentric to the universe or not, then He's the one to make it clear to me; not your insistance on what could or could not be true. The Lord does not live and work in the realm of dogmas. Where as for all the rest of your last posting, take the time to read "Do not love the world" and the "The latent power of the soul", both by Watchman Nee. Those books will explain to you with more wisdom than I have, the dangers of calculus and so on that you ask about. Enjoy your reading.
PS: Please consider the following: "Were there not scriptures being uesed to explain (insist) that the earth was flat to Gallileo?"
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
benoit, how do you know that God is not revealing geocentricity to you through me. does God reveal everything that you know and that you need directly to you? does he not work through people? also, what makes geocentricity a dogma? i know that God does not work in dogmas, and that he works in truths. geocentricity is a truth, not a dogma and what surrounds geocentricity is truth. if you parallel the history of the world acceptance in something other than geocentricity and that of the general beliefs of the world, you would be amazed. as i said in my first one, there has spawned many ideas, which are accepted both by the world and by Christians alike that are harmful to the reality and the truths of Christianity. i will read what you said i should read, but i would also like to hear what it says. i would like to hear why you believe it and what it says and such before i do so because right now i do not have the time to read it. i am curious as to see why you believe that something is harmful which God created. lastly, the scriptures which people use to support he flat earth (there are still people that believe that) need to be looked at in how they were written. the language of the verses are not literal, but figuratively (that's not quite the word that i want), if you will. verses such as the ones that reference the 'four corner' of the earth, are not speaking literally. this can be seen if you look at the original text and the literary forms that they were written in. the entire language of the Bible, however, speaks of a geocentric universe. these verses, if looked at through the literary forms, are literal and not figurative or presenting an image. also, geocentricity is not exactly as calculus is. in this i mean that geocentricity comes straight from the Bible so how can there be danger is figuring that out and knowing what God's word says. lastly, you still have not address the verses which i showed to you. you are skirting around those verses and have not addressed them directly.
posted
nicodemus snow says: how do you know that God is not revealing geocentricity to you through me My reply: Because I know His voice.
nicodemus snow: what makes geocentricity a dogma? My reply: Your insistant position in the same way that there was regarding the earth being flat.
Nicodemus snow: does God reveal everything that you know and that you need directly to you? does he not work through people? me: Yes, He does reveal everything and anything that does not get His confirmation in that way of His, is left in the realm of possibilities but until He ministers directly to me, then I find myself remaining in the realm of speculation, which I have learned not to rely upon.
nicodemus snow: also, i know that God does not work in dogmas, and that he works in truths. geocentricity is a truth, not a dogma and what surrounds geocentricity is truth. me: so you say and go on insisting.
nicodemus snow: if you parallel the history of the world acceptance in something other than geocentricity and that of the general beliefs of the world, you would be amazed. as i said in my first one, there has spawned many ideas, which are accepted both by the world and by Christians alike that are harmful to the reality and the truths of Christianity. me; Christianity and the Body of Christ on earth have rarely been the same, ever. The reality and truths of the Body of Christ are embodied in people who have been seated in the heavenly places in Christ-Jesus. Such truths and reality are secured by the Father and the Holy Spirit along with all the hosts of heaven. Being settled in such divine seating is where "ideas" are irrelevant on their own.
nicodemus snow: i am curious as to see why you believe that something is harmful which God created. me: This not a belief but an observation. What is harmful is not what God created but your version of it.
nicodemus snow: lastly, the scriptures which people use to support he flat earth (there are still people that believe that) need to be looked at in how they were written. the language of the verses are not literal, but figuratively (that's not quite the word that i want), if you will. verses such as the ones that reference the 'four corner' of the earth, are not speaking literally. me: The scriptures you have offered are of the same nature.
nicodemus snow: the entire language of the Bible, however, speaks of a geocentric universe. me: oups! there you go again...
nicodemus snow: lastly, you still have not address the verses which i showed to you. you are skirting around those verses and have not addressed them directly. me: Now I have by saying that they are of the same nature as those used for the flat earth argument, as you put it. By the way, a question I've had in regards to the event of the sun and moon not moving for a whole day, are there any other civilizations on earth that have recorded that day when the sun did no move? But even if we were to find out the answer that yes; say for example that China and India and the America's Aboriginal people all speak in there own way of what happened on that day, that would still not help to confirm that the earth is geocentric.
nicodemus snow: in this i mean that geocentricity comes straight from the Bible so how can there be danger is figuring that out and knowing what God's word says. me: When we find ourselves in front of something that needs to be figured out, then to be attentive to what God has to teach with the querries, is where answers are. None of what God teaches is in the realm of information alone. When God teaches, He imparts life, eternal life and this goes on while playing, working, talking, sleeping or any part of the day we are in. So once one is moved to life by God Himself, where else would you want to go, but into the growing closer and closer to Him, in Him by Him. As this goes on, what needs figuring out is only part of the daily pleasure of living in the obedience of the faith, as we are guided to what and who need to be known. When one is justified, that one has also been sanctified and glorified. The exercise is then to feed from the revealing science of God because the just shall live by faith. Faith is not a set or a system of thoughts and conclusions known as beliefs. Faith is the product of God in giving eternal life to individuals who are still alive on earth. This faith is a faculty all of its own that permits our divine input and output and constant regeneration from within the Alpha and the Omega, while we are in this mortal body. Mature faith prays ceasessly because it exists by the very Presence and Identity of our Creator. There is no need to go on with and into the realm of figuring things out based on comclusions that can be drawn or not from our understanding. To answer the danger part of your question regarding figuring out is found, as well as in many other places throughout scriptures, in Prov:3,5-8:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil. It will be health to your flesh, And strength to your bones.
So are evil and bad health enough warning for you to understand not to insist on figuring things out? Dont take my word or King Slomon's word for it; instead, go to God and have Him impart the life of these words into all of your fabrics. Do so with all matters of anything and everything.
With love,
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
benoit says that my insistant position on geocentricity is the same as when people were insistant about the flat earth and thus makes it a dogma? would you not agree that your insistant position that it's not, and thus your view on universe, is of the same nature? if not how is it different? benoit says that God reveals absolutely everything to him and is saying that things that aren't revealed by God should be left alone. benoit, did God reveal to you how to use a computer? if so, i'm curious as to how he did that. if not, should that not be something that is left to the 'realm of speculation' and thus should not be something to worry about? benoit says, "What is harmful is not what God created but your version of it." what makes it my version. and what makes what you believe not just your version but truth? how do you know, and how do i know what you say is truth? benoit says that the scriptures i offered of geocentricity were of the same nature as the scriptures which people try and use to support 'flat earth'. benoit, i would love to see what you mean by this. can you please offer how the scriptures of geocentricity are not literal. if you would like me to offer why the ones about 'flat earth' are not literal i would gladly do so, but i would love to have you write why the ones of geocentricity are not literal. please expound on that. benoit asked if there were accounts of the sun and moon standing still in other cultures than just in the Bible. yes. there have been quite a few different accounts all over the world. if you would like me to include those in my next reply i would gladly do so. i agree with you that those accounts do not prove geocentricity, but rather it proves the existence of the occurance. i agree with benoit when he says that if something needs to be figured out then we need to listen and be attentive as to what God says. i have done that with geocentricity and i know that God brought me to geocentricity. also, i agree with benoit when he says that what God teaches us is for his glory and for growing closer to him. i've said that already. geocentricity brings a great amount of glory to God and i have glorified God because of it myself. again, i agree with benoit when he says that we should not rely on our own understanding. if i did that i would be completely lost. obviously i don't always hold fast to that. i will admit that i do sometimes rely on my own understanding. however, with geocentricity, if i relied on my own understanding for that i would not know what to make of anything. i do not always know how to understand all the scientific or biblical aspects of geocentricity but they are taught to me and i 'figure them out' accordingly. benoit, i would also like to put that warning to you. do not rely on your own understanding. benoit, if you would like scientific evidence for geocentricity let me know and i will include a ton of information. also, if you would like more biblical references just let me know. again, with the biblical references already mentioned, please show me how they are not literal. i'm intensely interested. benoit, have you ever considered the universe before? have you ever seriously sat down and considered the entirety of the universe? if not, why not? since that is something which you do believe in (the universe) then God must have revealed it to you and thus you should have considered it. also, if you claim that God has revealed it to you, could you please expound as to how that was and what he said. if that is not something which God has revealed then why do you believe in the universe that you believe in? why have you taken everybody's word for it? benoit, let me tell you that geocentricity was not something which i came to believe in lightly. it took much studying, and most of all praying to finally accept geocentricity. so please don't think and say that i have not been in God with my beliefs of geocentricity.
posted
It seem that you have one way of reading that only revolves around arguing for the sake of producing a winner and a loser. For instance, when you say: "benoit says that God reveals absolutely everything to him". Benoit never said that. I say that whatever I need to know, God reveals it to me and that what God does not reveal to me is because either it is not needed for me to know and to wander about, or it is not needed for God to have me know it or it is just not needed to be known by anyone for it is useless or just plain wrong and/or a lie. The rest of your post goes on the same arguing way. So I'll leave you with the question: What difference does your view of geocentricity contribute to the faith. To me, I get no edification one way or the other. But to you, it sure does. So I guess I have to treat you with the same delicacy that Paul's teaching brings up regarding the different levels of conscience concerning sacrificed meats.
1Cor10,23-33 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the LORD’s, and all its fullness.” If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the LORD’s, and all its fullness.” “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks? Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."
So for the sake of not getting you to loose the balance of your system of beliefs, I accept geocentricity as a possibility as being possible and contributes to the spirit centered universe. To know that God is everywhere is crucial to me and for you, that the earth is central to the universe is crucial. Until He opens my eyes to see it, I am not about to take anyone's word for an argument which has as many evidence against it as does the flat earth, no matter what you see in scriptures, just like back in the days of Gallileo. The only difference seems that there is no pope left to swing his power of infallability with the full force of the civil law against those who dare to hold on to their ignorance until God moves upon them. So no, I do not know everything as you like rub in as though I say so or behave as such. This behavior is called projection. In other words, what you point out as though it was true of me, actually is true of you; so I'll pray for you to be set free from such mind bender. What I know, I know because I know that God knows me and that He has taken me to where I meet Him and I get to know Him as much as He knows that I can handle His all mighty, holy presence. In this relationship, I get all the info which He deems relevant to our communion, made to be celebrated between the two of us first of all and then He guides me to learn how to treat my love ones and my neighbours as how God treats me, full of grace and truth.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
first benoit, you still have not shown me how the scriptures which support geocentricity are figurative. i am still interested as to how that is. secondly, when i said that God reveals everything to you i meant that God reveals everything to you that you need, as you said in your last reply. i am sorry that my wording may have been confusing or misleading. even still, with your reply you did not answer my question as to if God revealed to you how to use a computer. that i am also still interested in. also, did God reveal to you the universe as you believe in it? thirdly, about your question as to what geocentricity contributes to faith. obviously, geocentricity is not going to determine whether or not you go to heaven or not or if you have a good relationship with God or not. however, geocentricity can reveal some of God's nature and his creation to us. i believe the more you know about God and about his creation, the better. also, geocentricity is benefitial for the rest of the secular world. i say this because if the world comes to realize a geocentric universe, there should be no way in whcih they should be able to deny the existence of some god. obviously, it is not going to point directly to the Christian God, but it is a step in the right direction. next, what you said about paul's teachings are completely out of context. first because when paul said that, he assumed that you had to be aware of what might make a person faulter in their beliefs. with that said, you have no idea what makes me faulter in my beliefs. don't be such an arrogant, ignorant fool and think that you not believing in geocentricity is going to make me loose my standing in my beliefs and faith. the universe is not 'you'-centered and not everything you believe in or not believe in is going to effect everyone that you talk to. i don't care if you believe in geocentricity or not. at first i was just showing that there is something out there besides what we are taught and then it turned into showing you how your arguments are all circles and side-steps and you are too stubborn to see what's out there. it is also crucial for me that God is everywhere. i never said that he wasn't and i never said that that wasn't important. your statement about the pope is wrong however because there is still a pope today that is using his immense 'power of infallibility' against those who 'dare to hold on to their ignorance until God moves upon them'. however, the pope today is not fighting against heliocentricity but promoting it (or at least the modern day of cosmology). again, i ask that yo stop being ignorant, especially when you accuse me of the 'projectin' you were talking about. i've never said that i know everything and i would never say that. i know that i'm ignorant about a lot of things, but at least i'm able to admitt that. lastly, you said that there is evidence against geocenticity. what evidence is that? i have not found any so if you could point me in the right direction that would be great.
You can go on with your projections and intellectual twistings all you want. The fruit of the spirit adds up to sefl-control, at the end of the long list of other greatly positive flavours. You've lost your self-control in the last post and before I find myself involve in your stumbling any further, I am going to offer you my blessing and let God, and/or any one else who wish to involve themselves, to deal with you. Read and re-read until you understand what I actually write instead of pursuing your ongoing slanting of what I mean by your reactive system of compulsive arguing. Then, perhaps that the blessing of revelation will guide you to where I seek to meet you; that is, far away from divisive points of views, opinions and beleifs and into the glory that makes us one, as Jesus is one with the Father. Of course you dont have to, but that is where I live, grow and speak from. You might want to try it, it is very settling.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
posted
just as i said before, i have been continuously just been trying to talk about the existence of geocentricity. you, however, have constantly been trying to talk about different, spiritual related topics. you have constantly claimed there there is evidence against geocentricity, and have yet to produce any such evidence. all i ever wanted to do, and what i still want to do was to discuss geocentricity plain and simple. your constant inability to do so by trying to discuss a topic completely different (yet you seem to think that it relates) has frustrated me to no end. all i ask is that we can discuss geocentricity. also, i have read and re-read what you've said and i stick what i've thought all along. your arguements are all circles and side-steps. i ask you to tackle geocentricity head one without trying to avoid the questions i ask you. so i propose that we start over. i believe in geocentricity and it is supported both scripturally and scientifically. if you have any questions or comments (strictly related to geocentricity) please reply and i will answer you the best i can.
Email this page to someone.
