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My husband and I have been discussing the "public" church for a few months now. We are homeschooling our kids. Part of our reasonings behind that is because we believe schools replace the parents as authorities and that isn't what God intended. Through our course of making the decision of homeschooling and confirming our reasonings, the topic of church came into our hearts. In June we left a church that was not a "good" place to be. The pastor there "motivated" people by fear. We were giving about 20-25% of our income to the church because of the "im afraid of what God will do to your family if you go back on your promise" which was made because of the sermon telling us that we need to increase more and more each year and that God wasn't happy until we gave money until it was tight enough that it "hurt" Anyways we realized a lot of problems about churches through the problems after we left there. The church we go to currently does not treat people the same but I suppose you could say we are "burned out" on the "public church" Deep within our hearts we do not feel like the "public" church is where we belong.
My husband grew up in church and his parents are VERY active and strong in their church. He was taught that the only way to be a good christian is to be in a church every time the doors are open. We currently are really only attending sunday mornings now. His heart isnt in it anymore and neither is mine. Our love for God hasn't changed but our perception of going to a traditional church has greatly changed. It just seems like a bunch of mans traditions and probably doesn't glorify God hardly at all. His siblings put off having kids so they could be "unhindered" in the ministry and I dont see how that is biblical either. It just seems that the whole modern church thing is a twisted perversion of what God intended for us. We want to make the right decision as we have 5 young children to raise up. We dont want them to grow up thinking God is someone to take lightly nor do we want them to be going to hell.
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Hi, I've been there too. We left organized church over 20 years ago and have no desire to go back. Since you homeschool, why don't you and husband and kids have some home bible studies? (You can do that instead of or in addition to regular church.) A good one to start is to see if we are really commanded to "go to church". Is the church a place you go or is it made up of the saints where ever they are? See if you can find any commands to "go to" church on certain days at certain places at certain times. Also sounds like you need to study tithing. I think you will be suprized what the scripture actually says. Try using Jesus and the disciple's examples when you aren't sure. (OT can be confusing at times and we are in the NC.) Since your love for God is the same, I think you will be in for a big long drink of God's word if you depend on his spirit as your teacher instead of the nicolaitianes. I've learned much more out in the wilderness with the Lord than I ever did in church. I've also been told I was going to hell for not going. I asked the person which the Lord prefered, to sit on a pew for 2 or 3 hours a week or to study his word and talk with him in prayer each day? They shut up and looked like they swallowed a bug. God bless you all, Faith
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We studied tithing after that. My husband was raised a certain way so he still felt he had to give at least 10% but we divided it into 3. 3% goes to the church we attend 3% goes into a savings in order to help someone in need and the rest goes to a missionary of our choosing. Though we only started this in january but we have thus far not given any to the missionary. We had a lot of "preaching" about what God would do to us if we "stole from God"and did not give 10% of gross PLUs an offering. My husband is still a little weary about what if they were right kind of thing.
We have been discussing no longer attending the "public"church. I have read books and did studying and while I dont feel 100% towards one direction, I have found a lot of good things that when combined, feels right. Meaning, the husband being the head and he teaches us. I find that to be biblical. We are told "forsake not the assembling..." but that doesn't say to go to a building but I see that as meaning joining together of believers. That doesn't have to be in a "church setting" So far it has been the only verse used to tell us to be in church but it doesn't seem strong enough.
I have been doing a lot of reading today. I realize I have been taught more about being IN a church and forgotten/neglected about being THE church. My mind and heart are just bursting and some things are no longer so confusing.
Just not sure what the next step is...as we have no one around here who would encourage us t.......well i do know of one family who might but we havent exactly met them yet. We will soon. We met them on a directory. They dont have a house church but they teach the bible to their children and live out their lives as showing Gods love etc. They dont tell people how to live but they have a testimony about them. I am more eager to meet them now
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Sounds like you've got the right idea about giving. Nothing is wrong with giving 10% if you have it to give. I believe scripture says to give as ye are able and cheerfully, which could be more or less than 10%. Giving from the heart where you see a need is right; not having to support a temple system that was done away with by the NC. Course if you still attend a church, you should help them some; but you don't owe it to them.
Yes the husband is the head of the family. It is good your husband is taking that role. It is good to assemble; but scripture never tells us how many or where or when to my knowledge. One thing those of us who study at home believe is
Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Thus, even a family can gather. I encourage you to continue to study even if you have only your family. God will provide living water for you and if it is his will he will give you other like minded folks to meet with. However, sometimes he puts us in the wilderness to get rid of all our preconceived ideas. Just him and us. Remember the folks used of God in the scriptures were often set apart for many years before the Lord finally used them. It seems we often have a lot to learn and we listen better in the quiet solitude of his presence.
We have a family who is very interested in coming to church with us. I suppose this situation has brought about the most conviction to me. If we aren't feeling all is well with the modern type of church, why would we encourage someone else to get into it. They would gladly come to our home. They see something in us and how our kids respect us and they want for their family too. So going to church is just something to spend more time with us to learn more from us. But they could do that here too.
What is the best way to clean off "all the junk" we have been taught about church and what God "wants" and get back to what He really wants? Even reading the Bible, its still going to be hard to get away from the junk because we will think "well we were taught this verse means this" Is it a matter of fasting and praying for God to reveal to us the truth?
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It sounds like the holy spirit is already moving in your life and situation. Prayer and fasting surely won't hurt, but there are also other ways to come to a better understanding of the ways of the Lord. When we are saved, we are given a clean slate and a gift of grace which we all need. We still have a lot of baggage from our earlier way of life, i.e. many habits to put aside, situations to alter according to our new life, and poluted thinking to change. God gives us time to change and his grace helps us to do so and covers us as we struggle with these changes. Because of our earlier experiences and indoctrination "church" sounds complicated and imposing. It's not! A few meeting together with Jesus as the focus is church. Jump in the water and let Jesus work his work among you. When we were unsaved (my wife and I) someone knocked at our door and offered to study the Bible with us. We agreed, reluctantly, and our life was soon changed. We started with Gen. 1:1 verse by verse through the whole book over many weeks and by the time we got into Exodus I was sold! I asked them (the two men who came every week), "What does the Lord want from me now?" We looked at a few things from the Gospels and then went directly to the book of Acts. We stopped at 2:38 and I had my answer. Perhaps you and your friends could just open the book and let God speak to you. To get rid of the garbage, go back to the basics. May the Lord bless you and encourage you.
By your display name it would appear that the one requirement for learning the truth has been met. "Seek and ye shall find." God will always honor our request to know the truth. But we must come as a teachable child to be taught of the Holy Spirit.
Too many times we go to scripture to prove our own theology. We aught to take more time to see what scripture is actually saying. This can be very difficult for someone who has been indoctrinated with error. It can be hard to block it out. But nothing is impossible with God.
I guess you have to be willing to give up anything in order to receive Jesus. Then follow the little things of truth as they become clear to you. If you are faithful in the least...
Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
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Praying and fasting are good. However, scripture doesn’t say to fast everytime we pray or need to know something. Rather we are to ask him. God is the one who gives understanding and teaches us. Also remember he doesn’t stick to our time table; but shows us what he will when he is ready. We won’t all agree or understand everything the same way at the same time. He also expects us to study to prove whether the things we think we know are true or not by comparing scripture with scripture.
James 1:5-6 (KJV) If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. [6] But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Philip. 4:6-7 (KJV) Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. [7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Col. 1:9-11 (KJV) For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [10] That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; [11] Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim. 2:7 (KJV) Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
1 John 5:20 (KJV) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Acts 17:11 (KJV) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Isaiah 28:9-10 (KJV) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. [10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
1 John 2:27 (KJV) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Philip. 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
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Well we met the family who doesn't believe in the traditional church which I thought would be an encouragement. But, it didn't. Their home was quite a bit of chaos and the older kids had poor attitudes. They dont seem to do anything with the Bible. We asked them a few questions and they really didn't have answers. I know they were fed up with the modern church but it just doesnt seem that they stopped reading their bibles *shrugs* So they wouldn't be someone we would go to for encouragement on having a house church or anything. But it didn't entirely discourage me. We had church yesterday morning and I just felt more and more reminded about why I dont want to be there anymore. I am not a perfect person but some areas in my life I hold strongly to in what I believe in. I wont tell someone else they have to live that way to be my friend but in the 9 months we have been there, I am no closer to the women than I was when we started. We lack common interests. Im Pro-large family,mom being the keeper of the home, we dont run to the doctor for every sniffle or get flu shots or anything, and we homeschool. All of the ladies there want a small family. The Pastors wife works and he stays home to watch their kids. Shes a registered nurse and therefore she believes strongly in the medical system and they get all the shots, get antibodics for every nose drip. Their kids go to every monthly visit. They are sick a lot because they are picking up stuff from the doctors office. My kids are rarely sick. I just dont have much to talk to them about. They are opposite of me on nearly everything. We believe the same basic doctrine but it really isn't an issue of discussion. We are all females but, that talk can only go so far. I have a hard time being led by people going in a different direction than us. Some people would say that unless they are teaching perversions than we should stay and ignore those differences. This church doesn't try to tell you how to live your life like other churches do. But they encourage christian schooling and they dont stick by what they say they believe in. The King James Bible is important to us but then they promote books that are niv and stuff. *shrugs* im tired of "religion" I just want to dig into the Bible and get out of it what God wrote and not some denominations interpretation
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seekingfor truth:just read your postings from in march. I hope that you have "seen the goodness of God' in your wise(my opinion). I am posting here because I really don't know where else to post. I have been a christian for a long time. and I did not come out from an organized church(just that plain ole sinner), In the Word i did not ever see "one man ministry"--how can one man have all the gifts of the spirit and "we " get to watch. so anyway I was blessed with a body of believers who believed in 'body ministry". I moved away and am now crying in my deepest--I have not found one "body " of believers other than the "organized charismatice" churches. please--I don't need to watch the music minister,etc. do their thing. I,once thought, oh here is a church--ministered to the street people,drug users,homesless(you know the heart of God) and I cried in my spirit until I found out they had 5 pastors in the church. so sad. so anyway here I sit and just want to be with fellow believers--and I do have that every other sunday nite--after work, sometimes it is not enough. so I, of course, like this site and yea--it is so hard to go to "church" when the revelation comes to a person. no leader, except the head of the body Jesus. believing in Him
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Hi Folks This is my first post and I feel really blessed to know there are so many other beleivers in the same boat as myself, family and friends and just to inform you-we are in Australia. All whom we know that are "out of the instititional chuch" were, like us, heavily involved-some even pastors.All would agree that, even though it has been a hard, challenging, frightening sometimes lonely process, the end result has been, as all was stripped away, a much deeper, closer relationship with God. We are encouiraged!!! The challenge has been how to fellowship with other believers outside of the IC.(We know that is God's desire) At the moment we come together around a coffee for chats and encouragement and I also meet with a group of women, some in IC, some not, doing a study on Intimacy with God.My first attempt at a home group type meeting in our apartment was a bit of a disaster because while most desired a time of pray, praise etc, some still smarting from deep wounds from IC, pastors etc turned proceedings into a "bag the pastor" opportunity. NOT AT ALL WHAT WE DESIRED!!! I have been really encouraged and enlightened by a series of books written by Frank Viola (which I ordered from the US) which helped clarify all that was happening and has given a historical, Biblical context to what we've all been experiencing. I had to ask myself recently why I couldnt just "go to church and not get involved, just go to praise and worship with other beleivers" I really had to ask myself was I prideful, overly critical etc. What I realised was that why I couldnt go wasnt that I was looking for the perfect church(which has been leveled at me) but that I felt by going I was endorsing a system and structure, nomatter how well intentioned-was not of God-it wasnt scriptural!! So I had to ask myself-if its not scriptural then what am I doing in it!!! After reading Franks books, I am concious of trying to merely transplant an IC mentality into a house church setting. What this Aussie remnant desires as the body is to truly make Christ our head, Thats it in a nut shell-the challenge is to accomplish this-and we know with Christ as our head and lead by the Holy Spirit we can . I will keep you posted.
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Hi everyone, I'm just posting for the pleasure of saying hi from Canada to you in Australia and the United States and so on. Isn't that great that the earth can now accomodate such communication? Now let's imagine this communication filling up with communion in the intimacy with God as our Father, teacher and leader. All of the world's intelligent people are looking for what can only come about with the God's view of the House Church.
Dear Lord, allow us all to know You and Your voice in such a way as to be set free from all the fog of the world and of our private lives. Raise us up to draw from You, all that we need to ready ourselves for the day when we will no longer be able to buy nor to sell because of the mark of the beast's system that is rising up all over the economies of the world. Show each one how to live now under our owneship in You that Paul describes when he says that: "all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s." Show us the extent and the power of Your ownership Lord, personally and communally, along with our service to You, in the complete safety of Your presence and Your joy, in the name Of Christ-Jesus I pray...thank You...amen...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
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I've really been blessed reading this thread. Thanx all for sharing your hearts. You have a kinship sister here in rural Kansas.
I firmly believe that we were designed to experience 'koinonia' as His Body. When that's not happening for the truly born-again...there is an ache, a longing in our hearts to know and experience Christ TOGETHER.
We left the IC a year and a half ago. But really, our hearts left decades before. What a waste of time. It took us so long to see. But I thank God that we do see now...and continue to grow in our understanding of our Father's Heart for His kids IN Christ.
My other heartache is leaving the ones I love behind. They will not hear our story, for fear of being challenged to do likewise. Yet, I see them groveling about the closets of the Master's House, when all the while He has set a table before them in His Presence.
These two aches burrow deep within my soul. They bubble out in intercessory, heart wrenching prayer. I know I'm not alone. Many, many brothers and sisters are going through the same agony. My hope is IN HIM, that the time will come when He will birth an assembly close by that we can participate in.
Thanx for letting me ramble. You're welcome to 'see me' and my family on my family pages at www.acitysetuponahill.com
Blessings to all you brothers and sisters out their longing for HIM in one another.
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Greetings from Bayfield, Colorado, USA I've really enjoyed reading these letters. My wife and I were part of a team of ministers in Portland, Oregon. We encouraged the 1 Cor 14:26 style of coming together, and saw that happen in our small, independent congregation. In June, we resigned our positions, and moved to Colorado. We honestly didn't feel to start another church, so we attended a local, denominational church. It was good at first, but then we began to really see the one-man show, and that the moving of the spirit was not welcomed. I'm surprised that a church that advertises itself as "Spirit Filled" doesn't really allow for it. If any of us are more concerned about HOW God shows up than IF He shows up, we'll miss Him! Anyway, biblical doctrine is more important to us than the desire to "fit it". I had the exact same feelings as our Aussie brother who had to ask himself: "How can I assemble here if I don't agree? Just by my attendence I'm silently affirming what's taught, preached, demonstrated, allowed or not allowed." After 4 or 5 services, we left and checked out another, smaller congregation, and experienced much the same thing. It was then that I began asking, "Lord, are you trying to tell us something...?" The Lord gave my wife a verse for our family a few months before our move, from Isa. 43:18-21. God was going to do a new thing in/with us, then as usual, He didn't go into any details. The move was peaceful and miraculous, and frankly, we thought finding a church to fellowship with was going to as simple and peaceful. Not so. In seeking the Lord for our direction, I found this website which has been a real help and support. We want to obey the scriptures, especially concerning His church. God has answered my prayer for direction by not answering - He's been quietly pointing to His Word (the blueprints), saying "There it is, search it out. Be able to show someone else (book, chapter and verse) why you're doing what you're doing!" Today, Sunday, my 14-year-old son and I will get together for the third time, just he and I. It's not perfect, but it's a start. My wife is at An Army Reserve academy, but will be back next Sunday and then we'll be a congragation of 3! We can only do what we can do, then God will do what only He can do. I'm more convinced than ever that if I am obeying Him and being open, He will add to this church daily such as should be saved! Please keep writing and sharing your experiences, the good and not so good! Think of it as an avenue of serving and edifying others (like me). If our labor is in the Lord, it will never be in vain! Thanks everyone!
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