Our main "worship unit" is our family. We believe that God wants "households of faith" that meet from time to time with other "households of faith" and that minister to practical needs in their community.
So, what we do is:
-Every night at dinner we each try to share some spiritual thought from the day, such as an observation from our devotions, an idea for ministry or some real life application of a spiritual thing. - Some time during the week when everyone is home, we get out our instruments and Bibles and have a more formal time of sharing, praying, worshiping. - If anyone lets us know of a need, we try to respond promptly and generously. - We try to have dinner with other families from time to time, for example if it is someone's birthday we may invite people over for a "family fun day". No presents, just a special time. During these times we make a point of having a spiritual thing to share, for example we had a "Scottish Highland Games Day" and talked about the ideas in the book, "The Celtic Way of Evangelism" and sang a Celtic worship song or two. From time to time we invite a special speaker to our home to talk about their ministry, and invite the people in our circle to hear that missionary, church planter or agricultural worker. - Finally, we spend a lot of time praying about our "family ministry team" and what God wants us to do, short term and long term. We particularly talk about our kids and how we can help them have full lives of "working with their own hands" and "reaching the Nations for Jesus".
In other words, we just "live life in the community", inserting the Kingdom of God wherever we are, think of ourselves as "the church at the Powell's house" and try to keep open to opportunities the Spirit brings, whether to eat a meal with an elderly widow, care for a neighbor's invalid family member so they can go on vacation, or help out in the hayfields.
That's not what everyone in our circle does, but it is what we do.
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Boy, don't you wish you lived next to Laurie's family? I think God wants us to represent him in our circle of influence. We honor him and worship him by our willing service and obedience.
I wonder, Laurie, do others ever misrepresent your love for God as legalism or accuse you of trying to work your way to heaven? I hear that pretty often from those I am around. They seem to have the idea that when you do something to show God's love in your heart you're just trying to earn your way to heaven. If I were in school they would have taunted me with "goody two-shoes" or at work it might have been "brown noser" or some other term. But when you're a Christian they like to ridicule you by accusing you of attempting to earm your way to heaven by being good enough. How do you sort it out for your children? How do you keep your service to God from becoming legalism? How do you answer those who accuse you of trying to earn heaven?
I commend you for your service to your community. It's good to teach your children to serve God out of love.
In my personal experience I was invited to attend a house church already in progress. Several families were in attendance but I attended alone. Later it was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit that they were more interested in criticising others than being the church. But I got caught up in their spirit for quite a while and did their dirty work at times. It took a while to see their true motive. They were trying to harvest followers from the church they once attended but were expelled from. I was a new believer and their company finally began to chaff me in the wrong way.
I have thought about starting a church in my home but even my wife and I don't worship together so that would be very strange.
I have never lived close to another house church that I might meet with them. And, though some ladies in my neighborhood might be open to meeting as a church in their home they are either single or have a disinterested husband that would not participate so it would be me and several ladies. My wife would frown on that.
These are some of the obstacles I have faced and which contribute partially to why I meet in the IC. My wife felt I was involved with a cult when I was attending the house church in California. The fact that they lived in a remote place in the mountains didn't help matters. Neither did the movie "Deliverance."
quote:Originally posted by jqlogan: I wonder, Laurie, do others ever misrepresent your love for God as legalism or accuse you of trying to work your way to heaven? I hear that pretty often from those I am around. They seem to have the idea that when you do something to show God's love in your heart you're just trying to earn your way to heaven. If I were in school they would have taunted me with "goody two-shoes" or at work it might have been "brown noser" or some other term. But when you're a Christian they like to ridicule you by accusing you of attempting to earm your way to heaven by being good enough. How do you sort it out for your children? How do you keep your service to God from becoming legalism? How do you answer those who accuse you of trying to earn heaven?
I don't know if you have ever watched the movie "God's Outlaw" about William Tyndale or not but he makes a really interesting statement right before the burn him. "The fruit on the tree does not make the tree good or bad, it just tells whether it be a good tree or a bad tree". Just because someone is doing good works does not mean they are trying to work their way to heaven, it just possibly means they are a good tree bearing fruit. We are compared to trees a few times in old and new testament scriptures, we can't help it, our fruit will show what we are. I hope you see the relevance in what I'm saying and it's not just my pain pills talking!
quote:Originally posted by jqlogan: In my personal experience I was invited to attend a house church already in progress. Several families were in attendance but I attended alone. Later it was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit that they were more interested in criticising others than being the church. But I got caught up in their spirit for quite a while and did their dirty work at times. It took a while to see their true motive. They were trying to harvest followers from the church they once attended but were expelled from. I was a new believer and their company finally began to chaff me in the wrong way.
I didn't know how to multi quote on this forum or I would have left it all on one post but... I came out of an established apostolic church (apostolic being the doctrine preached, not catholic). Many times we would have our pastor over (and his wife of course) and he would constantly talk about other people, run them down, talk about their personal problems. This happens not just in house churches I'm sure, I've seen it happen in church buildings also. One time he came over while we had company and he started talking about people, the fellow already at our house had some problems in his life, but by the time our pastor was done I am quite certain he wanted nothing to do with the "brand" of Christianity. I'm not talking about him to vent, the healing process is over, we've been away from him for 5 years not, but I'm only showing that people will talk, it's just them showing their fruit! I believe God had mercy on us leading us away from all of that, it's an easy habit to pick up on!
You still around? Sorry for waiting so long to post but I wanted to allow others a chance to "speak" out.
I appreciate your Tyndale quote "'The fruit on the tree does not make the tree good or bad, it just tells whether it be a good tree or a bad tree'." Truly, if we are grafted into Christ, the Good Tree (or Vine), then we cannot help but produce good fruit. But I am reminded by the words of Jesus that many will say to him in that day, "Lord, Lord, ...we have done good works." But Jesus basically tells them, "I don't know you lawless ones." Why would Jesus call them lawless, or workers of inquity, if they are bearing good fruit? I have some scriptures which I believe support my understanding, but what is yours?
So there must be a better way to test the quality of a person's fruit than simply by their kind deeds toward others. It would seem clear that Jesus judges a person by whether or not they obey his law rather than by good works alone. Personally, I believe the Bible teaches that we cannot truly love others while breaking the law, and that if we truly love others we will be also keeping the law. (See Romans 13:8,10 and Gal 5:14). But not keeping the law in the sense of personal effort to comply with all of God's requirements, but rather having that abiding relationship with Jesus by faith that works through a sincere love of him, what he stands for, and his kingdom of righteousness which is defined by his law.
Regarding criticism in my home church experience I did not mean to imply that it was an evil that existed only in that setting. The evil exists in the hearts of men and will be present whenever and wherever the carnal heart is present. That said, this particular group was not merely finding fault but their agenda was to point out the faults of the church in order to convince its members that it was Babylon and therefore they should leave it to attend their home services instead. But as I am sure you know, it is difficult to praise God and give him thanks in that environment--though I am not against exposing error by presenting truth. We are to cast down everything that exalts itself against God and misrepresent his character.
BTW, I often hear people talk about venting. Is that a Christian activity? Seems that the description of love in 1 Cor 13 talks about godly love as seeking not her own, not being easily provoked, thinking no evil (about others or their remarks), and rejoicing in truth (or right) rather than evil. To me this means that if we have this godly love then we will not be sensitive to the slights of others, we will not note them for later recall, and we will interpret things in a good way even if they were meant to hurt. And, we will rejoice in truth rather than preferring to dwell on the evil of others.
Plus, if we abide in Christ and he is living his life out through us then where do our personal feelings come from? How can we suffer hurt other than partaking in the anguish of Jesus for those who reject him? I don't believe we have a right to vent.
Scripture supports another approach. We are to tell the faults of others to them alone before we go tell others. In this way the evil can be confined to a small group and hopefully resolved without making it public. But venting makes if public first, and to human ears. We should rather be telling it to Jesus in our closet. He is our best friend and the One who alone can remedy the situation and give us peace.
I see the people that Jesus spoke of who claimed they were doing "good works", and yet were told "I don't know you" as people who were outwardly following the law and yet lacked love- like the pharisees. I like all the verses that you mentioned as they say just that- that it is love that is a true mark of whether we have good fruit in our lives- as love is the fulfillment of the law. I think those that get accused of legalism- or hipocracy are generaly those that keep a good moral exterior and yet are obviously lacking in love. Poeple like Laurie I think amaze and delight people- especially non- believers, as they have no false fronts, but simply love those around them. This happens only as we surrender to God and are changed by the Holy Spirit's work in our lives creating real fruit that is lasting and pleases the lord (Romans 6-8; Galations 5:13-25).
As I read back though this thread I realized that what I said could have been taken wrong- in using Laurie as an example, you may have felt i didn't put you in the same catagory. I only used Laurie as she gave the example of being open to serve and love those around her as the needs arose. Of course anyone who lives this way I blieve will stand out in this self-centered world and people will take notice. I believe most will be amazed and delighted, but of course there will be those who find this kind of aroma to be unpleasant (2 Cor. 2:15,16). When we hear negative comments as you spoke of, and are living this sort of life, this is probably the reason.
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My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:18)
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Matthew 7:15)
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (Matthew 7:16)
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (Matthew 7:17)
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (Matthew 7:18)
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Matthew 7:19)
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:20)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Matthew 7:22)
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:23)
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (Matthew 7:24)
There are a bunch more considering all of scripture is about doing, not just setting but verse 24 came right after 23(imagine that ) the verse you was writing about saying if you believe Him, act on it!
It is so good to read those verses in all of their context! When thinking of fruit I also think of John 15 (which Jeff brought up)- We can't produce real fruit on our own- God produces that fruit through us as we are connected to him. I also think of Galations 5 which defines the fruit of the spirit as love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. We can control some of our outward behavior on our own (even wolves can put on sheeps clothing), but we can not change our character without surrendering to the power of the Holy Spirit which is at work within us. This is one reason why I am loving being involved in a house church. It is easier to see the character of others in a small setting (more accountability), we benifit from what the Lord is doing in many peoples lives (not just one sermon), and benifit from seeing the Lord use our own lives in others. It is easier to spot wolf like tendoncies in others as we are involved in eachothers lives, and no 1 or 2 people are put on display while being able to hide their true characters at the same time. I am definately growing in this setting, and seeing others move out of being stagnant to true spiritual growth as well.
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Hi, Rich and June just starting in R.I. A great book "The Never Alone Church" makes point that starting in Jerusalem means starting with your own family. It makes sense to me. Rich 1
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Hi, Rich! Welcome to a fellow New England-ah... Although I'm not there now. Are you a native? Do you know about the well know network that Dick Scoggins pioneered?
That book sounds like one I need to get my hands on! I've done a lot of study on what Jesus meant by "Man of Peace" and how the OT families such as Abraham's and Job's are "model" families.
I'm also concerned about winning "whole families" to Christ through focusing on Heads of Households, rather than extraction evangelism. Are these things you are thinking about?
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Laurie Ann, I am thankful for your hospitality. I eagerly awaited the first reply, that will always be you. Last things first, based on personal import, or impact. Winning whole families, surely a biblical practice,would require keeping or bringing whole families TOGETHER. This brings us back to that book,the story of personal struggles of David (the author) and wife Teresa, caused by stress of ministry and of course ignorance - he gives some funny examples. Their ministry -Intimate LIfe Ministries, out of Austin, Texas - out your way it seems, is dedicated to bringing the Spirit to Pastors and their families. Perhaps that is more than you want to know, but there is no question same thruths can help all families. If you really really want to think outside that box we call church, try WHY MEN HATE GOING TO CHURCH, real insights in this area,even makes me see things differently, and that's saying something. With prayers of Thanks, Rich 1
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Jeanne, Just a quick hello, before the Red Sox game starts, have they been mentioned on thes site before? Anyway, we thank you for your kind welcome, looks like we were on site at the same time. Looking forward to future exchange of ideas. This site has great mission statement. All kinds will speak out,and variety assures much disagreement. Will pray that all may practice the great Baptist principle of soul freedom. I find people truely believe whatever they believe, or they wouldn't believe it. Know what I mean? Well time for first pitch, til next time, God Bless, Rich 1
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Yes, Rich, there is certainly disagreement here from time to time . But I must say that that has worked to drive me to the word, which has lead to the stretching of my own thinking at times as well as the solidification of my current convictions at others. AND- I have found great encouragement here as well!
I have a question, You said you are starting a group after being part of small groups before. Are you starting a house church or a small group through a more traditional church? Either way, I am excited for you and June- coming together with other believers to seek and worship the Lord in a participatory manner can be such a spiritualy fruitful experience!
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I am so happy to hear of your success in personal growth, both in wisdom (new ideas)and in strength,(confirmation)Jeanne. Thank you for interest in our plans. As to being confused about what I am saying, you are not alone. Most we meet can not figure where we are coming from. ( hope I don't sound TOO proud of it) I imagine some of that will be true here as well. This begs the question of what do I (Rich) mean by house church? By active participation in this site we operate a new form of house church, where our words and ideas and hopes are called out, out from our own homes to meet with one another in spirit in the name of Christ. Oh, you would like to know what the R.I. foot or arm or leg is doing. Fair enough. I think the question is how is it different from what we have done before? Let's look at last Tuesday's prayer and reflection gathering. This is a monthly activity of the statewide ( its R.I. MORE LIKE A COUNTY for you) Christian organization I helped start 8 years ago. You see it is not with any traditional church ( on here I think you call them IC) A typical night is as follows 1) soft music tape to quiet our souls, 2)each take a turn reading aloud a passage of the Good News 3) quiet music while we contemplate its meaning for each of us 4) sharing our question and conclusions on the topic 5) prayer circle. We then move to the table for pot-luck dessert and coffee. We started at 7 and left at 9 because I get up for work at 5am. There were 6 of us, 2 were first timers. Is that "church?" I say yes AND NO. You thought I had you confused before! It certainly far exceeds the minimal standards of traditional churches- I prefer this term because what they are today reflects many hundreds of years of built up- well, tradition. So what do I think is missing? Oh,look at the time, guess I have to run. But think about it and we can talk much more about all of this. Do you love it like I do? May God Bless your effort, Rich 1
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Ah Jeanne, do you think you detect some method in my madness or vice versa? I just came from a sample of some of these forums. Man, there is a lot of bitterness. Hey, I've been there! But for the past 10 years I have no longer had that personal luxury. Thank God. guess we can only pray others can become so blessed with inner peace. Wonder whatever happened to Rhoda. Can I answer your question with a general principle? June and I encourage others by our own actions, and words if asked, to enjoy all the vast kingdom has to offer. Examples? Winter before last discussed Purpose Driven Church with a dozen at nearby Baptist church. Two years ago we did the Alpha program at nearby R.C. church. Lasy year went to talk on Holy Spirit At Assembly of God at the end of our street. When we see hot dogs and beans supper at the Methodist we join in. Last Saturday It was ecuminical stewardship in Worchester,Ma. Just a few of the special treats beyound our normal(?) activities. Yes it is true organized religion is passive, confused, and the always favorite, hypocritical. The word I got 2 weeks ago was DISFUNCTIONAL- it does not produce the results it was intended to produce. However, I always have a however, have you seen the word humility on any posts? When I can PROVE that the Spirit of Truth has given me a BETTER way to live THE WAY, well in the mean time, we can continue to talk about it. As always, Rich 1
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I read "Why Men Hate Going To Church" and found the diagnosis accurate and the prescription pathethic.
Rick Warren probably read (or inspired) some of it. The problem won't be fixed by louder or edgier music.
Of course, we need to get beyond hubris or critical spirits. I don't see the organized church as "the competition" ... simply as another arena that may attract people who need and may be actively seeking what the home church has to offer.
Email this page to someone.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
) the verse you was writing about saying if you believe Him, act on it!![[Smile]](smile.gif)
. But I must say that that has worked to drive me to the word, which has lead to the stretching of my own thinking at times as well as the solidification of my current convictions at others. AND- I have found great encouragement here as well!
