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I mentioned a "list" of things I have been freed from. I am in the process of posting them here. My purpose is to answer questions that are being asked, to share the freedom I have found, and to open myself up to factual and Biblical correction. (This does not include the endless debate of my-Bible-version-is-bigger-than-your-Bible version! I'm open about which Greek and English versions I quote from, but I refuse to fall into the gnat pit of which Bible to use. Besides, I'm trying to open a forum of learning. I would love to hear what "your version" has to say if the time is taken to present it in a factual way, as I have. This is true with anything I post.
That being said, let me state here, that I do NOT think fasting is useless. I just think that fasting SHOULD be between a person and their Lord. Secondly, I do NOT think of "fasting" as living a balanced life style. I used to be a fitness instructor at a YMCA, and to me this is only considered to be "common sense." Besides, the only types of "fasting" mentioned in The New Testament were just simple hunger from not having any food, and fasting before The Lord. That is only what I will address here.
Also note that I used the Nestle-Aland 26 Greek text (as I always do), not the 1894 Texus Receptus, or the 1991 Byzantine Greek. These are my findings there.
Matthew 17: 21 “Howbeit this kind goes not out but by prayer and fasting.”
I have read thus scripture over and over. It is repeated in:
Mark 9:29 “And He said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.”
Then when it was read in church something new occurred to me …I don’t know why. I asked myself, [what if] what The LORD was saying was not “this kind of demon,” but “this kind of power”? The two verses would read, This kind of power can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. There are many places where words are added then italicized for clarification of the Greek into English. This would not offend my theology, but make it stronger (since this is apparently what is implied anyway) that fasting builds one’s spiritual condition.
“What if?” I thought. “This ‘power’ can be obtained through prayer and fasting.” Was this the secret that allowed Peter’s shadow to heal the sick?
Before I built something up in my heart and mind, I figured I would do a little research. For the first time I turned to a Greek Interlinear to see if my new “light” could be supported. The reason I did this was because I always wondered why Jesus had gotten on to the [apostles] for lacking faith, and had then said they needed to be fasting. After all, He was their "Teacher," why didn't He just teach them to fast, and then lead by example? Jesus came eating and drinking and was called gluttonous, and a wine drinker. That isn't fasting. John did that (Matthew 11:18-19.)
What I found was so shocking, I did not believe it, so I got another Greek Interlinear and compared the two. They were the same! I was so shocked I refused to believe. Here is what I found...
But first, there are three Greek words used in the New Testament for going without food. The first is nhsteiv which is used in Matthew 15:32 (the plural form nhsteiaiv is used in Second Corinthians 6:5 & 11:27 ) and simply means “not having eaten.” The second Greek word used, nhsteiwn (used in Acts 14:23) has the exact meaning of fasting as in a voluntary, religious exercise (the kind that we think about). The other word I found was the Greek word asitoi (used in Acts 27:33) which carries the same meaning as nhsteiv simply meaning “not having eaten.”
So where is the shock? I haven’t gotten to that yet. I found this information AFTER my initial shock wore off. Here it is. Matthew 17:21 is no where to be found in the Greek. Not one Greek word!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then I looked up Mark 9:29. Fortunately there is at least Greek there. The problem is, the word for prayer (proseuxh) is there, but there is NO WORD for fasting!!! It is NEVER ANYWHERE in the text! It DOES exist in the Texus Receptus, for the record. It has been removed as a later addition by an "unknown author" in the Nestle-Aland.
Why is this so upsetting to me? I have fasted religiously many times. I have even fasted for ten days with no food. Zip, zero, zilch, none! Just water and zero calories!!! Ever been told, "If you'll just fast..."
Here is what I found. There are only two places where The New Testament Church Leaders fasted before The LORD. They were doth directly connected to the apostles fasting when they were about to appoint new elders in the church. This was in Acts 13:2 and 14:23. I in NO WAY believe there is anything forbidding fasting in the New Testament Church. However, I wonder if The Holy Spirit is supposed to be taking the place (in our lives) that fasting once held in the lives of the Jews. Let’s look at it this way. What Jesus spoke regarding the religious practices of the Jews was before He said “It is finished.” Therefore, if the “It” he was speaking of was the fulfillment of the old law through Him, then the “It is finished.” statement supersedes the now fulfilled law.
I believe fasting should be done because we are directed to by The Lord, not because we are made to feel guilty if we don't fast because a church "leader" is calling for a fast.
Why would anyone guilt fast? There is no penance in it. Fasting should be to allow the mind to think clearly to ponder the things of God and to pray. It doesn't even have to be abstinence from food. It could simply be a very light meal so that all of your blood is not in your stomach but is shared with your brain. The body is taxed by a large meal and this is why we like to sit down and sleep after a large meal. And, it is why we sit in front of the TV and veg out. Rich foods make us groggy.
I believe fasting should be done so that we may experience a fuller, more rewarding time with God. We need to change our attitude so that we love to do things for the Lord and we are not motived simply by obligation. Just think about your children and how you want them to relate to you. Then you will understand better how the Lord want us to relate to him.
If you give a child $20 dollars for Christmas you would be thrilled if they spent all of the money buying you a gift. You would expect them to spend it all on themselves. If they do, you, as the parent, could take practical steps to teach them giving by instructing them to give $2.00 to someone else. Thus, you would instill in them a spirit of giving.
Remember, you are free! But don't use your freedom to break the law. Think instead, if Christ had not died for me I would still be a slave to sin, a captive to evil with no hope of escape. But now Christ has died for me and has restored to me my freedom, my right to choose between good and evil. I will choose to do what is right to show Him that I love Him.
There is no merit in our works but this is ok because we are not saved by works. We are saved only by God's grace through faith in Jesus. And there is no penance for us to do because Jesus has paid the penalty for our sins--if we have accepted His sacrifice as ours. Therefore, there is no value in guilt fasting--which I think was your point, too. But I think I added a slight twist.
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jqlogan, I will try to cover everything you ask and mention. A person guilt fast because a pastor tells them they should. A pastor is often seen in the IC as "the word of God," this is just never directly said. Thus the term "guilt"! And I agree with your statement in the last paragraph, "there is no penance for us to do."
As far as eating a big meal and feeling sleepy, what you say is only partially true. Many weight lifters eat really big meals before they lift. I used to be a fitness instructor, and that is what I prefer to do. Eating, and then vegging, is what causes a carb dump. If the food energy in the carbohydrates and sugars you ingest are used to fuel activity, there are wonderful benefits!!!
Next, Here is how I want my daughter to relate to me. (I have never thought of it in this light, so thanks for bringing this up.)
I entrust my child with $20.00. She is now free to do with it as she sees fit, as long as what she does is not in violation with my will. If she sees someone to whom she wishes to share with, she is to seek my council on whether of not she should give what I have entrusted to her, (for her to use) to someone else. It is not really her money after all, she has just been entrusted with it.
Therefor, she is to either 1.) spend it on things she wants that are okay with me, or 2.) ask me before she gives it away, and get my permission and direction.
The theory being here that I am wiser than a child, and much wiser than rules and regulations that teach nothing but absolutes.
The above example is New Testament. This teaches relationships, wisdom, and discernment, that can later be personalized and passed on. This is not simply rules and regulations to follow. What do you think about all of that jqlogan?
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Matthew, I think your comments are that of a loving, caring father. But perhaps we are each talking about different stages of maturity.
How long do you wait after eating before you lift? Do you eat and veg to allow your food to digest? If so, I think we are saying about the same thing except that preparation for weight training differs from preparation for prayer--though I sometimes use weight training as an analogy to Christianity.
Oh, I forgot to explain why I believe fasting can be done without abstaining from all foods. Some people would have a very difficult time going without food for too long--children, diabetics, elderly, etc. Are they to be denied the blessing of fasting. No, they can fast by keeping their meals simple and light.
Think of it this way. If we were still required to travel to Jerusalem to worship then some might be denied the privilege. Therefore, we now worship in spirit and truth in homes, church buildings, prisons, you-name-it. That way no one can be denied.
quote:Originally posted by jqlogan: Matthew, I think your comments are that of a loving, caring father. But perhaps we are each talking about different stages of maturity. How long do you wait after eating before you lift? Do you eat and veg to allow your food to digest? The Lord loves a cheerful giver.
Thank you jqlogan. I really do love my young one! Is a matter of fact, we are thinking about maybe having another or two.
I know this may sound strange to you, but I have already implemented what I'm talking about in our three year old's life. I have worked with children and teens for over twenty-seven years, and this is the way I will raise my own children. It really works! The thing is, I had never really put what I was doing down in words. I have you to thank for getting me to actually sit down and put it into words. It actually amazed me that what I have done for years (and my parents did with us three) with the children I have worked with is very close to The New Testament example of how Christians were treating each other!
As far as the work out goes, I like to eat and then hit the gym. I love doing a pizza buffet right before I do leg day! The extra energy gives me the strength I need to lift weight and not "cheat" with momentum. I eat and then go. Objects at rest tend to stay at rest. By the way I'm 41, my wife is nine years and one day my junior (she is 32). I can't let her start thinking of me as an old man!
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And I agree with your statement in the last paragraph, "there is no penance for us to do."
