posted
I'm just going to sit back and let this sink in, but here is my conclusion from all of this [this, that, and the other] that I am learning, both here, from my mentors, and in my personal walk.
I'm trying my best to be totally right. In my thinking, in my actions, and in my heart. I also feel everyone else [here] is [hopefully] doing the same thing. I think this is really wonderful! I also think that I can be one hundred percent where I'm supposed to be, and be in a totally different place than anyone else in the whole world. I also think that it is wrong for me personally to try and "correct" others, especially those I don't even know.
I have come to the conclusion that I personally am not here to debate, but to learn from those who have already been "where I wish to go," and also to heal.
There are those that are here (it would seem to me) only to debate. They are not where I'm at, but that's okay too. In fact, they are right where they are supposed to be too (if they're harts are in the right place).
I'm going to try and live by this for the rest of my life. I no longer feel the need to convince folks that my way is right, because it is [probably] NOT right for anyone else but me.
posted
Just an afterthought after talking with JeffL. I think of our walk as a walk in the woods, park, wilderness, desert, etc. Please don't think that I have decided that I'm "ahead" of others. I'm just not in the same place, that's all.
An example would be a frontiersman cutting a trail in the woods. He is trying to get to a [certain] frontier. However, another frontiersman can be going in the exact opposite direction and still be doing "the exact same thing" as far as trying to get to a certain place goes anyway.
I guess my point is, that we all are on a journey, and if The Lord is meeting us where we are (He is with us) then no one is necessarily "ahead" of anyone else. We are just where we are. How can I be ahead of anyone if our Goal is the same Person, and He is standing right next to us!?!
posted
My friends, You know I agree with you both- up to a point! Isn't this cool, its like being in the old temple hashing out understanding the hard way, one word or even one usage of that word at a time. No force fed formulas for us!I guess now that we can experience this process, we wonder why we should. In working with the church these past 2, more intensive years, I now believe each person's faith is totally unique. It is like spiritual fingerprints. For we are unique packages of background, gifts and goals, personality, experiences and relationships, and much more. Surely, at least God understands this. Yes, Jeff there must be things which are true, that is: eternal, unchanging. However, if that which is true is spirit, how can we properly use the word Know? Is that where FAITH or BELIEF must come in? I have grown some in faith, but when I die, I WILL KNOW if I was right, or delusional, or misinformed. Til then, let us reason together,as in days of old. Rich
posted
NOTE: Actually that is horribly misinterpreted. It actually says, "Go you !Please! And We shall correct, He is saying." The We here is The Lord, and then Isaiah goes on to explain what will be made right (our sins). The words "reason together" should have never been used... and why did they take out please? That's not very nice!
How about this? Let's pretend for a moment that we have tunnel vision. Let's also pretend that the only thing we can see at the end of the tunnel is The Lord. Besides enjoying a wonderful view, let's further pretend that since we can only see Him, all of our attention is focused on doing what he tells us to do (His will for our lives) and not on what others are doing. Now let's pretend we "arrive" ...and for the first time notice everyone who has had the same "tunnel vision" is there too. Sounds simple huh?
Seems to me we waste a lot of time trying to parent those who truly have the best Dad in the universe. Just my conclusions. Be blessed!
posted
You make 3 very good points. Perhaps the reason we go on and on about this stuff, aside from the fact that we must care about it a lot, is that we are so limited by human words to explain the unhuman. Greek not so bad, 2,3 lines of possible meanings for each word. But a Hebrew/ English dictionary- often an entire paragragh of possible meaning! Would not the Spirit of Truth be best qualified to sort that out? Love your vision of paradise. Look forward to the day when Satan will no longer be allowed to stand in front of us, blocking the great view.
True, a lot of time is spent on all of this. Unlike Jesus, each of us is an ADOPTED child of the Spirit of God. Perhaps like Jesus, we try to help each other complete the many steps of the adoption process. Simple,Yes? Rich 1
posted
I think we should get as close as possible. I use the Interlinear to do that. Again, it's not that complicated. Hebrew or Greek word above, English word below. A certain level (the lowest level needed) of trust. I just don't trust the [other] versions, that's all. If you do, fine, but it's hard to make a case with something that is often so ... well, off.
So, let's pretend (for a moment) that the devil gets blamed for way too much. On second thought, lets prove it. Type in the word "lusts" (Greek to English, "to on feel") into the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer (it is free online) and you will find it occurs 24 times in 24 verses. The word "lust" is in there 19 times in 18 verses. The devil is only mentioned once, in John 8:44, the rest is blamed on "our, flesh, mortal body, hearts," etc... The devil, he just isn't there ...but we are!
That being said, what good is "all of this" as you say? Are we really trying to "help" others, or are we just wasting our time? For example, see how quick you were to dismiss my Interlinear findings? However, I have found the Interlinear to be quite trustworthy ...but that's me, and not you. We are in different places, and that's a good thing!
Okay, now to preface my next question... Let's pretend that The Lord has [me for instance] right where I am. Now let's say someone [with totally pure intentions] comes along and starts trying to teach me something [aka "help" me]. If The Lord has me where I am, is it really going to help, or even work? If The Lord has [me] learning, surely He will also have me asking questions. Do you agree?
My point is, I think we should spend less time "teaching" (the "go, be warmed and filled" stuff) and more time loving (the "doing" stuff)! So, what do you think Rich 1?
posted
Okay, we waited long enough. First, my human reponse- no way, that seems to challenge what I am trying to do. Now, for an intelligent(?) Spirit reponse- Matthew, if only they could see what you see. May I borrow your pretend method?( should I say "of teaching?) Let us pretend we are standing on Main Street, U.S.A. We notice a car keeps going back and forth. They could be caseing the bank, or cruising for God knows what. But when it comes to a stop in front you, Something (?) makes you ask "Can I help you?" The driver responds "Yes, I am truely lost. Could you show me the way to God?" (Well, maybe not those exact words)What would the old church do? " Sure, move over buddy, I'll drive." Rather invasive, yes? That is a habit we will have to break if we wish house church to be more than only a little Big Church. Could our response be more "Boy, that's long trip, but if you turn the car around, take a right at the second light, at least you"ll be on the road out of this town!"
Our sacred texts indicate that none of us, "not one" , is where God wants us to be, if we use " wants" to mean desires, longs for, plans, intends. Yet, there seems to be even 1 thing more important than His plans and objectives-His DESIRE(WANTS) that each of us should be allowed to CHOOSE degee of, time for,participation. We humans do indeed find the balence of those 2 WANTS very messy. I do not see how Calvin's God could PUT you in a place, but our Father allows us each to discover our own mistakes as we grow up. Always nearby with a word of wisdom, if we should care to listen.
Finally, 1 very minor point. My dear sir, I would NEVER "dismiss" your Interlinear- unless I missed it, you had not mentioned it before. Rich
posted
I forget in who's presence I babble. I am quite known here for hitting the Interlinear when asked, "What does The Bible say?" I'm sorry I assumed you knew where I was getting my information. Please forgive me.
Also, I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I have now run into the home-church-acting-just-like-the- traditional-church thing. We once got into a church (years ago) that was very typical, but they had a wonderful "home group" that we went to ...eventually even ditching the "real church service" totally.
That being said, and comparing/contrasting the two, how does one not "throw the baby out with the [soiled] bath water" so to speak. Jesus Himself said that a stream cannot contain both pure and poisoned water. I feel there is more harm in going to "church" than in just staying home and listening to worship over the internet, radio, CD, or whatever.
The "forsake not" thing was horribly interpreted (I feel to trap folks into traditional church). Instead of "beside" and "together" we have "just sit there and listen, and do what you are told." Some Sunday take a chair and head up to the pulpit for a chat with the preacher and see what happens!
So the question? How much do we toss? I say the whole entire thing!
Email this page to someone.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
In fact, they are right where they are supposed to be too (if they're harts are in the right place).![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
