Radically Christian Cafe: Asking someone to leave the church

R C Cafe » House Church » Discipline & Conciliation » Asking someone to leave the church

Email this page to someone.

Author

Asking someone to leave the church

Art Daly

posted

I'm a deacon in a small community church here in Lake Tahoe. Our Pastor is also an Elder at our church. One Sunday he told us how the Elders make decisions. He told us that in order to resolve an issue that all the Elders would have to be in agreement. The process Pray, seek Gods word and discuss it together. In doing this they hope to be in God's will.
A man who has worshipped with for over 2 years had some objections to the church's structure. He was encouraged to go to an Elder meeting or write a letter. He wrote a letter, that without going into great detail did the following, the introduction was written with love and a concern for the truth, it shared some negative experience he and his family had with some of the staff, it asked them back up their decision on ordination a woman pastor with scripture and it made some suggestions. The letter was upsetting to some of the members and the pastor, but instead of talking to this man, he preached messages from the pulpit to support their position. So the man wrote another letter to counter the sermon, this pattern repeated one more time. Then one of the Elders (not all) wrote him and told hold to leave the church. To the best of my knowledge he is guilty of asking questions.
Questions? Can an Elder, Biblically do that?

DiAnne

posted

What did they say in the sermon to counter the arguments raised by this man? Do you see how one-sidedly you present this story? Obviously you disagree that women should be ordained as your concern is not all that masked. Did you also know that Paul said we are to live by the Spirit and not letters written in ink (2 Cor. 3:3). They lived by the Spirit and did what the Spirit led them to and these can only serve as guidlines when we read them with our Spirit and not simpy our fallen minds. What we need is for leaders in our churches to start sharing how faith works in our experiences, in our trials. That is what will lead to more godliness, not whether the right sex is telling us how to do this.

Romans 5:1
Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

We live from faith to faith, in our circumstances. We need to heed Paul's words to become like those we witness to in order to win some of them. If we get too caught up in the literal words of Paul and forget to read his letters with our Spirit for the Spiritual realities he is discussing we will go down the wrong path.

[This message has been edited by DiAnne (edited 05-20-2003).]

derek

posted

I would like to read Dianne's reply to the actual question,not her soapbox.

Melvin

posted

There is more than one way to look at women as elders or pastors:

1. The Bible is a book we as Christians choose to live by. Even if we tend not to agree with something we are committed to follow its instructions. In 1 Timothy 2 Paul went back to Adam to establish as a universal principle that women are excluded from these positions. That is, he went back to Adam to make clear the spirit of what Scripture has to say on this matter.
2. Just as the position of a rabbi is not found in the Old Testament, the position of pastor as commonly practiced is not found in the New Testament. Elders are to oversee the church, not monopolize it. Ephesians 4:12 says they are responsible for the equipping the saints for the work of ministry. It makes no mention of providing a show for an audiance. The body functions by "the effective working by which every part does its share." v. 16. Since your church is more like a Christian community center it really doesn't matter if the pastor is a woman. Its not functioning as a church anyway.
3. If the woman pastor is really equipping the saints for work of ministry, perhaps she is the Deborah of your fellowship. If so, perhaps there is a Barak who is not stepping forward. If there are men in your fellowship who have been Christians over 25 years and have no visable ministry there is something wrong with the men.

Rick
duffield, VA, USA

posted

I found it interesting that no one who wrote you back seemed to address your question.
>To the best of my knowledge he is guilty of asking questions?<

Of course he is not guilty of asking questions. Especially if he asked them in the manner you described.

If he had made a public scene. If anyone is guily of violating scripture, I would think it was the elder board and the pastor.

"leave your offering there before the altar, and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
Matthew 5:24

"And if your brother sins, go and expose him in private. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
Matthew 18:15

I found these 7 rules of church discipline to be helpful.

(1) Discipline must be done by those who are spiritual, truly walking by the Holy Spirit and growing in the Lord (Galatians 6:1).

(2) Discipline must be done in a spirit of humility, gentleness and patience, looking to ourselves lest we too be tempted (Gal. 6:1-2; 2 Tim. 2:24-25).

(3) Discipline must be done without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality (1 Tim. 5:21).

(4) Those who walk disorderly are to be admonished, warned, and appealed to in love (1 Thess. 5:14-15; 1 Tim. 5:1-2; Eph. 4:15; 2 Tim. 4:2). This admonishing, is not restricted to church leaders, but may be done by any person in the body with another if that person is Spirit controlled and spiritually minded (cf. 1 Thess. 5:14 with Gal. 6:1).

(5) If there is no response in repentance and obedience, then the sinning believer is to be rebuked publicly and members of the body are to withhold intimate fellowship through the process and procedure of group disapproval and social ostracism as prescribed in the next section, Procedures for Church Discipline below (2 Thess. 3:6, 14-15; Tit. 3:10; 1 Tim. 5:20). This action has a two-fold objective:

It is to indicate to the offender that his/her action has dishonored the Lord and has caused a rupture in the harmony of the body. The goal is always restoration and the person is still to be counted as a brother (2 Thess. 3:14-15).
It is to create fear in the rest of the flock as a warning against sin (1 Tim. 5:20).
(6) If there is still no response in repentance and obedience, the church is to apply the procedures of excommunication as directed in Matthew 18:17.

Several examples of church discipline are found in Scripture. The Corinthian believers were to be “gathered together” in order to take action against the offending brother (1 Cor. 5:4-5; Rom. 16:17; 2 Thess. 3:6-15; Phil. 3:17-19).

This is defined by Paul as “punishment inflicted by the majority” (2 Cor. 2:6). As a protective measure, we also find that the whole church in Rome and in Thessalonica were to take action with regard to the unruly and schismatic, not just a few (2 Thess. 3:6-15; Rom. 16:17).

(7) Finally, discipline in the name of our Lord always includes a readiness to forgive. The many or majority who discipline must also be ready and eager to forgive, comfort, and reaffirm their love to the sinning person (2 Cor. 2:6-8).

Rick

Hop To: