posted
Our weekly gathering usually sees between 5 and 7 believers, and there are a number of brothers/sisters who meet with us "once in a while". And then we have visitors who learn about us and want to come see what it's all about. Therein lies the problem...
We often have visitors to our gatherings who show little evidence of being "born again". They profess Jesus, and claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but little, if any outward signs are manifest. Everything from their words, to their actions, to their "fruit", show little (if any) evidence. Many of them are depressed, constantly make bad life-choice decisions, and are happy to "take" much more than they "receive". They are self-centered and take every opportunity to tell you how "needy" they are. Many of them have to go outside every 20 minutes to smoke, and often get up and walk out at the most inopportune times. Once it happened during a tearfully joyful testimony! It hurt my heart!
Certainly, these folks can "blend in" easily at the IC, but in the close, intimate setting of the HC, the differences become glaring. Our core group has shown much love and compassion to these people, and had great hope for them, but it seems that somewhere between 2 and 4 meetings, they don't return.
We show these people love and compassion, and treat them as brothers/sisters, and commune with them. So far, none of them have stayed with us long term, but we've come close to confronting some of them with some difficult questions. My question is... when folks like that join in with us, is it correct to question their authenticity, or sincerity? Of course people can say anything, but their actions speak louder than their words. Naturally, you have to give them time to reveal themselves, and this may take many, many meetings. But, at some point their true nature shows through their shallow fronts.
While we are not to "judge" those outside of the "Body", we are charged to judge those who claim to be in the Body of Christ. - 1 Cor 5
Do we consider them to be part of the Body, or based on their evidences, consider them as outsiders? If they are outsiders, shouldn't we show them great compassion and unconditional love? But, if we take them at their word and include them into the fellowship, should we just be patient and encourage them to improve? Is there a point where we encourage them to discontinue fellowship with us if improvement doesn't take place?
This has been a concern since the beginning of our "fellowship" (March 2002) and recently, has become a bit of a problem. I'm sorry this writing is kind of "short and choppy" and might come across as "a little harsh", but it's the best I could do in a short amount of time.
Your servant...
BruceD
JimP - kentucky
posted
Shucks BruceD - As I read this I expected to see it being signed, as from Jesus... Maybe one of His prayers to Father, as He would retreat and go be alone w/ Him! O;>) We really don't now exactly what He was discussing w/ Father, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it wasn't concerns - "just as this"...
Throughout the years - we have seen and experienced the frustration of exactly what you share... and I suppose little of what you are experiencing, hasn't been our experience also... Among those that come and go - are those hungry for something, and don't even know what it is? They go and come from IC settings on Sunday, feel unfulfilled somehow, and come using us as a supplement to their stead diet...
You say you have 5 to 7 core dedicated brethren that meet w/ mutual commitment... And are finding the transient "visitors" seem to detract from the mutual desires of the dedicated? Have you thought about maybe two gatherings? One that the dedicated enter into Him in mutual accord? And another as more of "ministry" - assessments could be made... teachings offered... prayers for specific needs, even if there are those w/ self centered demands/dictates surrounding everyone to a degree?
Maybe you could even "springboard from this open meeting" to other's hosting simple gatherings that meet people where they are....
Right now I am active w/ a rather small core group on a very personal level... Now comes a group of young believers asking me to join them, which I have... These young ones being comprised of various IC Sunday going hungry ones... And it is a real mess.. haha A delightful mess! \O/ Thou, they all want to eat well together and carry this good food back to IC come Sunday, and feed it there... Experience has shown, they will learn, that doesn't ever work... Typical to IC fashion, these meetings are about a mile wide in diverse interests, and about an inch deep... O;>) But I am encouraged by them never the less... Now If the Lord provides - we will do again a mixer gathering - maybe a picnic... Allowing for the young ones to see the stable walkers, and the olders to catch some of these young ones exuberance...
Guess what one of the young ones shouted and blurted out - as the light bulb went off in his head? Yep! Looking at the gifting represented here - "You know we could join together and start a church, and do it right"! hahaha Nothing new under the sun - now is there...? O;>)
Hope this helps - if nothing more, than to share - you are not alone...
JimP - kentucky
inhim2day
posted
Dear Bruce,
I just encourage you to hang in there bro, only the father knows these peoples hearts. I have found you will see many go and few stay. It always is painful but it produces longsuffering and much grace in our lives.
I know this sounds wierd but what you described is really normal in body-life. I promise you in 10+ yrs you will be watching the same thing going on if Jesus chooses to tarry. (and by then you will understand better how this works)
What is important is how will you react to it. I promise you he will use it to take you too the cross.
Just keep those eyes on Jesus!
Much grace in this situation to you Bruce, Ruth Sapp
CharlesC
posted
Bruce, I liked Jim's idea about having additional gatherings which included people outside the main group of those who were committed.
Jesus had different types of meetings with different people. He met with the multitudes, with many disciples, and with His core group of disciples that He called apostles. Alone with the few, the emphasis of the meetings could be for the maturing of this committed group.
posted
We too have had these sort of scenarios. I would suggest a couple of things. First of all, lay aside all your expectations of what you think should be happening. That will be hard but trust the Lord in this. He is the builder of the church and he knows what you all as a group and individual needs. Lay aside all expectations of how you think a good meeting should go. Lay aside all expectations of how you view true ministry. Lay aside expectations of how you wish to be ministered to as well as how you think others should be ministered to. Have confidence that He will do what needs to be done regardless of what is happening and who is present! So, rest in Him.
Secondly, you are experiencing what the Lord goes through every day with some of us! You described how these people bother you and how they seem to affect the group but their actions remind me of how many of us treat the Lord on a daily basis and yet He still loves us and continues to desire a relationship with us. I'm so glad for that! I do not get the impression that He is alarmed at our behaviour. Insteadl, I see His loving care of us continuing without any judgment at all. (That's a very hard one for me to learn!)
Anyway, for what its worth, those are some of my thoughts. Hang in there and trust the Lord and watch Him work. He does good work and on that you can bank.
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