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After watching the movie 'the passion....', i posed a question to friends regarding Jesus asking the Lord why he had forsaken him, which was one of his last words on the cross. If Jesus knew what was happening all along, why would he have asked this. Can anyone explain...
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Jesus became "curse" on our behalf. The essence of the curse upon Adam and Eve is one of eternal rejection, away from eternal love. When one feels the experience of rejection, then one is felling forsaken. No matter how much He knew what was happening, the unbearable intensity of the pain caused by the curse kept His body of sin and His innocent condition of being the Lamb of God in the state of interogation. When Jesus called out to the Father on the cross, that was the peak of the moment that defines "the son of man-The Son of God" relativity of Jesus The Christ of God and it is also the moment when all 3, The Father, The Son and The Spirit were together, yet apart, having to take on the excruciating pain of eternal seperation caused by the curse, so as to bring to completion the Ministry of Reconcilition. No other human being could have ever taken upon themselves such position of mediator and neither could have anyone else taken on what came after the cross, for the time it took for His return to life, in the transfigured body. Feeling eternally forsaken lasted until then for Jesus. This mission of being forsaken unjustly while fogiving those responsible for His death, was when and where God was in Christ, completing the mortality part of the reconciliation of the world unto Himself, opening up the passage so that He would not have to impute sins upon humanity and putting into us the word of reconciliation as though God was beseeching people to "please, be reconciled to God"! This was when and where Jesus was bringing to an end, all that is born in Adam, before descending into death; from that time on the cross to His exultation at the right hand of the Father, was the moment when He went from being the last Adam to then becoming the life-giving Spirit.
The practical aspect of Jesus having taken on the entire depth of the curse means to me that no matter how lonely and rejected I have been or will be in this life, My Savior has been and will have been my One Complete Brother by taking on the very curse that He had to lay Himself upon humanity, so as to preserve His own Holiness and to deal with Lucifer's actions of the past, while leaving the door open for His salvation to eventually come through during the course of human history. The curse He layed upon humanity was to keep His purity pure, while He demonstrated His creating Lordship over all matters of life and death by taking on the effects of the curse with the same humanity as us all. Our experience of the cross must come after denying ourselves. Failing to deny ourselves while carrying the cross is the best receipe to feel the effects of the curse in body and soul, even if salvation has been received in the heart and in the spirit. Instead of experiencing the power of the cross as the freeing power of God to those who are being saved, by not denying ourself we end up getting the cursed part of the cross, having to learn the hard way what should be an easy yoke to bear.
As I wrote this last paragraph, our Lord graciously taught me where I went wrong for all these years.
Dear Lord, show me how to deny myself along with all that You have forsaken in Jesus in that ultimate moment on the cross; guide us all I pray in the way that breathes the curse out of Your people, by the work of Your Spirit in our spirit, Who reaches in to bring life to our mortal body and from Your gift of eternal life in our heart that grows our soul's renewal according to Your will and good pleasure...amen to Your Yes in us all...
Ps: Dear Lord, if You see fit, perhaps could You inspire Mel Gibson with a movie of what You went through during the 3 days in death. Special effects and all, as only You can possibly know...amen
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
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Do the words forsaken and longsuffering have anything in common?
Could it have been that God turned (seperated)from Jesus at that moment, he could never be in the presence of or associated with sin, at the moment when Jesus cried out, why have you forsaken me.
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In French, the word longsuffering is translated with the word patience.
While on earth, Jesus spent His whole life with a body of sin like ours and He spent that life among humans, who are all sinners. Jesus IS God. So to say that God could never be in the presence of sin is incorrect, because whatever Jesus went through, the Father and the Spirit also shared into each experience, pleasant or not. Being in the presence of sin could not be avoided. Also, God being omnipresent, He is therefore at all places at all times. How can He not be present where sin is?
The same is true of the separation that they experienced as Jesus was taking on the curse and its punishment of mortality on the cross; separation was suffered through by all 3 of the Godhead. He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. Jn 14,9-11
Jesus is the divine incarnation, The One man who could sustain eternal holiness through the biological realm of our fallen human nature, in spite of the power of mortality. When the Word of God became flesh, divinity had taken on mortality and all of its power of deceit and evil, while remaining pure within the fulness of grace and truth, in spite of His human nature having journeyed from conception through to death, and gaining life back by God's authority on humanity's behalf with the resurrection, growing His Kingdom into heaven with the ascention and restoring to completion the glory of God and humans with the exultation of the son-of-man-Son-of-God...halleyluyah...
...please dear Lord, keep us aware by the light of Yourself in each one of us, so that mortality does not interfere with Your voice and lead in the Church on earth at all time...amen to Your Yes in all of us...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
quote:Originally posted by ernest: After watching the movie 'the passion....', i posed a question to friends regarding Jesus asking the Lord why he had forsaken him, which was one of his last words on the cross. If Jesus knew what was happening all along, why would he have asked this. Can anyone explain...
'My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?'Is the King James translation that was influential on many later international versions. It may also be translated as: Mat 27:46 But about the ninth hour [i.e., 3:00 p.m.] Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying [in Aramaic], "'Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?'" this is, "'My God, My God, why did You abandon Me?'" [Psalm 22:1]
It may equally be translated as not a question. Such as, 'My God, My God, For this (purpose) I was spared ( or given up). (This is perhaps even more literal that the King James- are there any scholars out there?) The issue of it being a question is merely a matter of interpretation- there is no question mark in Greek.
It is this last translation that agrees with the Peshitta or Aramaic bible.
The point I am making is simply this: That Jesus may have actually said, 'My God, My God, for this (Pivotal moment in history- this very purpose) you have given me up ( having spared me till now). This is the understanding of the Eastern Orthodox Church and has been orthodox doctrine in Aramaic speaking regions since the early centuries of Christianity. Remember that the bible takes pains in this verse- as if God knew it would be the most misunderstood- incorrectly translated- that we are reminded that Jesus was speaking in Aramaic. So in English we are already two languages removed from whatever he originally said. AND IT CAN BE LITERALLY TRANSLATED AS GIVEN UP (implied purpose) statement and not FORSAKEN question.
Unbiased bible translater needed who doesn't merely follow western tradition.
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