Greetings from the rolling green hills of Iowa. I have just located this site after a brief search for HC information. We are attempting to start a fellowship group (HC) in anticipation of our local IC being shut down. It seems like we have some issues to work through prior to actually getting up and running though, so, I have been lurking for a brief bit here trying to find some answers.(42 is not an acceptable response to me) Most of our group have had a rough journey through the IC and in the places between. I bet our stories are not that much different than yours.... it's that we are still trying to work through it all. Glad to be here and look foreward to learning, growing, and producing fruit.
Jon
-------------------- "Too many clowns... not enough circuses." -unknown
I think we all would prefer a "smooth" journey over a rough one. I've been trying to get the Lord to consider the concept of perfection through recreation rather than suffering. That sounds more fun doesn't it? I think so. But if He went through the grinder, so will we.
We went through a series of transitions that lasted a few years. It was a rollercoaster that didn't seem to end. However, if I hadn't gone through it, I don't think I would have the confidence I have today in the Word and in the leading of His Spirit.
I think everyone on this HC journey has to go through their own "are we sure we're on the right track here, Lord...?" Some of us have nervously stepped out away from the "safety" of the IC, fearing a divine lightning strike or something. Then, as we walk humbly according to the Bible, nervousness gives way to stability. Stability grows to strength...strength onto maturity and ultimately perfection.
If I can offer one bit of encouragement from one brother to another, it would be the Word the Lord gave to me a few months back. The church in our house consists of just our family of 3 so far. But the Lord told me even though it's just us 3, to "Take this seriously; because I do." Our time together in the word, in prayer and fellowship isn't just a nice thing to do; it's a necessity. But becuase of a much more casual environment (our home) it's easy to misunderstand the importance of assembling together and "blow it off." That's not okay!
So, brother, give out to us as well as you receive from us. We're in this together and we all need encouragement from each other!
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Hello, Pat Sipp. I'm a new member here, like yourself.
In all honesty, recreation certainly isn't a good idea; it denies the righteous of proving themselves to God, and allows the wicked to have everything for nothing. No, God gives us free will so that we are responsible for our own actions- that is just. Persecution and suffering; these things are often necessary to attain spiritual achievements.
Notice that most if not all prophets in the Bible (among the most powerfully spiritual and blessed Christians that ever lived) went through hardship and suffering throughout their lives? Some had their own families turned against them and make plans to kill them, others were imprisoned and tortured, most if not all were alone in this world.
However, this allowed God to bless them many times more for what they went through, because through it all they were examples and inspirations for us and brought glory to God; He brought good out of evil and what they went through then is nothing compared to the glory they have now.
Jesus, who was the strongest of all, also went through the worst trials, and what I have said is nothing compared to God's true plans for us as Christians, so you see the wisdom with which God makes His decisions.
Don't try to get God to "consider" anything; what right do you have, or any of us? God is wiser than you are; instead, Christians should "patiently accept the suffering they are given, and pray that God will bring good out of evil", not offer God advice as though they are equal to Him. Christ Himself prayed shortly before being crucified; "if possible, I pray that I would not have to go through this, but over all things I pray that your will be done; do what you want, not what I want." We must follow His example; we must be patient, humble and silent before our Lord; always remember that He knows what He is doing, and has reasons for everything He does, and plans we could not begin to imagine!
I apologize if I offended in any way, and you must forgive the directness with which I speak to you.
From Relic, your brother in Christ, and I may God bless you!
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
I was making a joke with the "perfection through recreation" idea. I guess I failed to mention a disclaimer after that. No I'm not offended at all by your response, but please take that sentence completely in jest and not seriously. I will be more clear in the future.
If you re-read my post, I think you'll see that I point out a) tribulations are going to happen and are part of the trying of our faith; and b) if it weren't for these trials I/we wouldn't be in the stronger place I/we are.
By the way, does anyone else like the idea of "Perfection through Recreation?" Like, patience through volley-ball instead of tribulations? (LOL) Disclaimer: Do not be offended - this is a joke.
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Satire can be taken as attack upon Christianity. The site with the mock Christianity designed to highlight modern errors, in the hope of reformation, can also be used by the world to give them ammunition against Christians. I would have preferred something more positive as there are already enough mocking sites- such as Anti-Church...
By the way, does anyone else like the idea of "Perfection through Recreation?" Like, patience through volley-ball instead of tribulations? (LOL) Disclaimer: Do not be offended - this is a joke.
It was originally God's intention for Man to attain to 'sinless perfectionism' through the simple recreation of eating of the Tree of Life. If Adam and Eve had eaten of that Tree first they would have then found it impossible to sin. However today I doubt that there are more than two Christians aiming at perfection through whatever means possible.
It is a foundational assumption among much of Modern Christianity that anything deeply spiritual is exotic, unreal or unobtainable- and is therefore the subject of mirth from within and without the Church.
After all consider this example of the rejection of the Tree of Life (Christ in all his holiness) in Anglicanism. Every day they confess that: 'We have sinned in thought, and word and deed.' Christianity seems to have become the religion of perpetual sin instead of continual sanctification. Let the world LOL[/QB]
FastDaddy: Go and grow in Jesus! Let His Word be the structure of your life while His Spirit motivates you. You're on a great, narrow journey that leads to life!
BlackSwan: We don't know each other. Our experiences are different, our understandings are different etc,. If you cannot accept my humor, than please accept my apologies for failing at humor. "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine:" (Prov.17:22) Lighten up! I'm sure this website was designed for encouragement and disscussion as well as sharpening each other's countenance.
To the rest: One great disadvantage to interaction over the internet is its inability to fill in the non-verbal/written gaps. We'll never really get to know each other this way. May I encourage all of us to not pounce on every opportunity to "preach, correct, or admonish" other contributors. Let's remember it's not our knowledge that makes the real difference with other believers or the world; it's our love one to another. Let's give each other room to be who we are in God. And folks, even God has a sense of humor. I noticed that today when I looked in the mirror.
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pat Sipp: "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine:" (Prov.17:22) Lighten up! I'm sure this website was designed for encouragement and disscussion as well as sharpening each other's countenance.
Thanks for the welcome and encouragement Pat! I couldn't agree more with your humor... and on our interaction over the net. While it is good to strive for perfection, it is very bad for one's witness, and a hindrance to edification, to be a joyless and/or humorless representative of Christ. The tongue is a difficult weapon to control, and sarcasm and good natured teasing can easily go awry, but, without those tools it is too easy to become, or be perceived, as a bloviating windbag of spiritual arrogance. That arrogance is one reason that we had such a hard time in the IC. We were constantly being "corrected" for even our minor missteps in a decidedly controlling manor, and with heavy handed application of the Word. I would like to point out that my signature quote is both sarcastic and pointed... but, more than anything, intended as humor to those who get it. In Him - Jon
-------------------- "Too many clowns... not enough circuses." -unknown
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Glory to God FastDaddy! I "Ditto" your comments. Things were beginning to sound like my first year in Bible school, where everything was a scriptural debate. Q: "Excuse me, may I please borrow your book?" A: "Well, ya know the Bible says...." Q: "uuuhhh...so is that a No?" Wow!
Anyway, I hope your journey is layered with righteousness, peace and joy! And Since you have a sense of humor, you might appreciate some short videos we did not too long ago. They're up on Google:
posted
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Fastdaddy: While it is good to strive for perfection, it is very bad for one's witness, and a hindrance to edification, to be a joyless and/or humorless representative of Christ. The tongue is a difficult weapon to control, and sarcasm and good natured teasing can easily go awry, but, without those tools it is too easy to become, or be perceived, as a bloviating windbag of spiritual arrogance.
Hello, FastDaddy. Did you know that while it is good to have a sense of humour, it is very bad for one's witness, and a hindrance to edification, to completely ignore what other Christians say and to refuse to learn? Sometimes you don't want to be able to hear what others say because they make truthful points that contradict personal values, or sometimes you don't want to have to answer because you know the other person is right. Sometimes it's even hard to be humble and admit that you're wrong. However, when these tools are not used, FastDaddy, you might become, or be percieved as a "bloviating windbag of spiritual arrogance."
Sound familiar? Your previous comment was a direct reference to BlackSwan; I find it strange that you would call him a "bloviating windbag of spiritual arrogance" after he made such interesting points. Wait, no, don't tell me- it was just a "sarcastic joke", right? Just more of your "harmless humour", yes? If so, then show me the humour in such a reply! I'm growing tired of that excuse- you used it a lot in our other debate (I'm still waiting for your reply by the way).
Perhaps instead of complaining about how you're always being "corrected" as you did in your previous post, maybe you should think about being humble and actually considering what's being said? If the points BlackSwan made are found to be true, accept correction for your mistakes, and apologize to BlackSwan for the way you acted. Come on, FastDaddy, when God expressed anger towards Job's friends for thinking they were ever-so-righteous and wrongly accusing Job, I'm sure they didn't find it very hard to apologize at all! If, however, you find error in BlackSwan's points, then why not try a little something we call "debating" instead? After all, not a single one of BlackSwan's points has been answered so far, so there's still much debating to be done.
If you can't think of anything better to do than respond to others with insults or that are both unfair and untrue because you have some problem with being corrected, then look at the log in your own eye before trying to remove the splinter in your brother's- though so far I haven't found even a splinter in anything BlackSwan's said, and so wish to know the reasoning behind your post.
Please, go right ahead; I'm perfectly willing to listen.
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
posted
I get your humor, FastDaddy! There was way more lighthearted humor in this thread than some seem to realize, perhaps because of a culture difference in catching how Ugly Americans joke around?
Anyway, YES it would be great if there were another way to grow besides "pain, perseverance and persection" but humor definitely helps us survive. Perhaps that's why some of the most hilarious comedians come from Jewish backgrounds - they have had been living with God's ways as long as anyone and have discovered the value of laughter in the face of disaster! How can you not laugh when you serve a God who walks on water and makes donkeys talk?
Laurie Ann Trying to figure out why God has an"ends of the earth or bust" gal stuck in Tulsa...
I have obviously hit a sore spot with you. I do not owe BlackSwan an apology because I never called nor insinuated that he was a "bloviating windbag of spiritual arrogance". He made a very good point about the use of sarcastic humor in a public forum. If you will read my statement carefully, I was warning that to ignore or even prohibit the use of humor in spiritual conversations would lead to the above negative perception of the believer.
Just because I don't fall all over myself thanking you for pointing out every little flaw in a concept that was meant to be nothing more than a joke (in either thread), doesn't make me hard hearted or one that refuses proper correction.
To both you and Black Swan, The world does not take this stuff as ammunition against us. They already have plenty of their own. If you haven't seen it you better start looking harder.
Of course.... I could be all wrong on this... maybe the translation program from Ausi to English isn't working right.........
Laurie Ann - Thanks for the reply... and for...well....just... Thanks! You did brighten up my day. Go Oakie! (Ooo the Cornhusker in me just flinched! ) Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------- "Too many clowns... not enough circuses." -unknown
posted
The really sad part here is that I came to read and learn.... posted an introduction and a couple of comments on posts that I thought were funny... and got hammered on.
Relic, BTW I had spent an hour typing a reply to your "debate" in the other forum, but, decided not to post it fearing that I would have come off being too rude, disrespectful or once again misinterpreted. So my reply to your "debate" is the best one of all my choices....nothing.
-------------------- "Too many clowns... not enough circuses." -unknown
Don't dissapear! I was blessed with the "gift" of humor and appreciate others who have it too!
No long Bible study into holiness, not great oratory leading to piety, just simple encouragement from one brother to another...keep edifying others as you want to be edified. And good humor is an avenue to do so.
Please don't fret with others who desire to strive about words to no effect. There are others who wonder if there is life beyond the sancutary at 1st and main and it's important for us to show them that there is! There is life beyond the building, the pastor and the denomination. May the road to life you've found be worth sharing to others who are looking for it! And always be abounding in the work of the Lord for you know that your labor is not in vain! ( I Cor. 15:58)
You did not only say *perceived as*, but *become* in your post. Do you really expect me to believe that when you wrote this paragraph about being spiritually arrogant for lack of humour, you didn't have BlackSwan in mind; after all it was after his post about the world using Christian's sarcastic humour as ammunition! So yes you do owe him an apology. Also, lack of humour is not what causes someone to become spiritually arrogant, it is self-pride, and BlackSwan has shown none of this.
And if you think I am angry because you didn't "fall over thanking me for pointing our every flaw that was no more than a joke", as you put it, you're quite wrong. In our other debate, did I show any anger towards you? Slight disappointment, maybe, when I made serious points- real requests for prayer that were answered with jokes. The only anger I have shown towards you is when you insulted BlackSwan- that being said, if you insult someone, however indirectly, do you expect the reaction to be something *other* that anger? *That's* what's sad.
The fact is that the world *does* use what Christians say to make much ammunition against Christians, as *well* as having much of their own! Have you forgotten that in the Bible there are examples of Christian words being twisted, such as when Jesus was accused of saying he could destroy and rebuilt the temple in three days?
As for you being "hammered on", as you said in your other post, I repeat that the only anger I expressed towards you was after you insulted BlackSwan, which could be defined as hammering him. That is, unless of course you define being "hammered on" as having a person feel a little disappointed because (again) you only replied with jokes when they made serious points that needed proper answering.
If you really spent an hour trying to come up with a reply to my points in the other debate, then if you read my posts in the said debate you'd know that I've always been happy to hear these points and have been waiting patiently for them for quite some time.
I don't mind good-natured humour, but surely you can't be saying that it's unreasonable for me to feel a little let down when it's been your only reply to my points in a debate regarding *Christian persecution*? I may have a sense of humour, but there's nothing humorous about the things being done to Christians that were pointed out in that topic.
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
First, I never asked for a debate....that was your idea....you even twisted the post, by offering unneeded correction and a hundred line treatise on the faults of an obviously HUMORUS statement to try and start a debate.
Second if I insult or go after someone it is by name and is very pointed.
Third maybe this is a cultural thing and maybe not. But in any event I did not come to this site to waste fruitless hours in unproductive debate. I was in high school debate as a kid, proved my skills there, and don't have time for it anymore.
Good bye Relic
-------------------- "Too many clowns... not enough circuses." -unknown
He says I twisted his post but cannot show me where! He says his statement was for humour but can not show me the humour in it! He then says that the debate was in fact my idea in the first place, but can find no quote to show me where I began it!
At first FastDaddy says he did not reply to my posts because I was just so *accusing* and angry that he thought it best to ignore. When I point out that I have been waiting patiently for a reply all along, what happens? He suddenly changes his act and says "I've had enough of debating- good bye, Relic!" and disappears, leaving it at that.
Perhaps the debate would not be so fruitless, FastDaddy, if you made serious replies, as I said in my last post. This point, among others, has gone unanswered.
What I have called a debate was in fact a single point brought up by me which FastDaddy refused to reply to; "let us pray for Christians being persecuted, and against those that hurt them should they not repent". That was all it was. A simple point. Despite all of these facts, FastDaddy, and despite all of the points I have brought up that have gone unanswerd, *you* tell *me* that the debate is a waste of *your* time? And then you run away, with no answer to my points?
For a long time I have been waiting for a proper reply to a simple request for prayer among other things, but if Christians being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, raped and killed all around the world for that fact that they are Christians is a topic you find not worth taking the time to pray about, or in fact a topic that *sarcastic jokes* can be made of, then there is no need for us to continue.
I apologize if this simple request was too much to ask, FastDaddy... after all, it was selfish of me to expect a fellow Christian to have to waste his time replying to a simple request of prayer, and utter *absurdity* to feel a little disappointed when the request was replied to with jokes! Did you know such behabior on your part is called "lukewarmness" in the Bible?
What's amazing is that after all this FastDaddy thinks himself to be in the right and me in the wrong! I've grown tired of trying to speak with you, FastDaddy; I've said what I needed to, and will not press the point further.
So fine! You run away, you coward! Goodbye and good riddance!
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
posted
Relic, dear, may the Lord bless and keep you.
I often can not pick out from your extra long posts what you are really driving at. Brevity would serve in the case. Generally, forum format is to deal with one or two points per post, in order to give others a chance to respond point by point. If 4 or 5 paragraphs don't suffice, you may be saying too much. This topic, for example, has become pretty overwhelming when Jon's purpose was to say "Hello" and our job was to say, "Welcome, Jon".
I don't necessarily think you are wrong in what you are saying; you are mistaken in your inferences of what Jon and BlackSwan's intent was in a number of cases, and have gone so far from the discussion as to be hard to follow. For example, implying that Jon is not praying for the persecuted church simply because he didn't defend himself on the point is to assume a great deal.
Are you young by chance? You remind me a bit of an angry young man I know... Where is most of your theology coming from? I'd love to see more orderliness in your posts to better understand you.
May God bless all Chistians, particularly those on this forum! Despite long posts, I have answered plainly, clearly and directly. If anything is misunderstood, or does not seem to have orderliness, please point it out.
I don't assume that Jon is not praying for persecuted Christians because he did not defend the point, but I judge this from the answers I have been given from him in his other posts. You're not the only one who has thought me mistaken, but I've said what I've wanted to say and answered all the points brought to me in previous posts, and that branch of a topic has now been finished.
Who's this "angry young man" I remind you of? My posts often have a strong directness about them, which I understand can be mistaken for anger, but this is merely a way for me to make sure a point gets across. I'm not necessarily angry, if that's what you think, just direct... and also disappointed. How old do you think I am, exactly? I'm assuming you're someone who's past her twenties and is now in her thirties, or at my highest guess, somewhere in the forties?
Well, I've been brought to believe thatI have a habit of posting lengthy messages- and this is evidently getting quite lengthy.
God bless. Relic.
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
...For a long time I have been waiting for a proper reply to a simple request for prayer among other things, but if Christians being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, raped and killed all around the world for that fact that they are Christians is a topic you find not worth taking the time to pray about, or in fact a topic that *sarcastic jokes* can be made of, then there is no need for us to continue....
...So fine! You run away, you coward! Goodbye and good riddance!
Relic, I re-read some of your posts and it occurred to me that something may be bothering you. I heard a while ago (or did I read in one of your other posts?) that a thirteen year old girl converted to Christianity in a Muslim country and she was executed as an infidel- her head cut off with a sword...
QUESTIONS- NEEDING BRIEF REPLIES: 1. If you could have protected that young Christian would you have? 2. If you couldn't protect her would you have been willing to die with her? 3. How old are you? 4. Are you so disappointed it hurts? 5. Do you want to know how to witness more effectively? 6. And, of course, can you take advice from an Old Relic?
posted
BlackSwan, in answer to your six questions that I usually wouldn’t answer:
1. I would have protected that child –and any Christian- but that doesn’t really matter anymore. And anyway, what can words prove of myself? True Christians are the ones that *do*, not *say*.
2. It’s hard to die when there are still things left undone. But Jesus died. It’s better to die bravely than to live as a coward, letting another Christian (especially a child) die instead. Such cowards deserve death I hope it’s given to them.
3. I’m just a child myself and no older than sixteen- no one important.
4. Isn't that what disappointment is?
5. How?
6. Another relic; yes, I would.
I don’t want to talk about most of these things and they seem unimportant to me. Let’s focus on the fifth question: I’m interested to know how I could improve my witnessing…?
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
posted
Thank you for answering our questions here, Relic. "Don't let anyone despise you because of your youth." But it helps us old hags and old relics to know that you are a youth.
Because, if an older person said the exact same things, it would sound very different. That is a problem with cyber-space - seeing someone helps us place what they say in context. (That's why some evil old men can pass themselves off as teens on the 'net - they never grew up! In person they seem scary - online they just sound like kids.) You were kind of reminding me of a brilliant older teen who has a great deal to say. He's an angry young man for very good reason, but as a result what he says is often not "seasoned with salt" - neither the salt of grace or of wisdom.
And I believe both of you will die for the faith at the right time if it is asked of you. You give me hope.
Anyway, I'm relieved that the reason you sound young is because you are young. "A problem that will all too soon remedy itself" to misquote Dickens. Is it Dickens?
quote:Originally posted by Relic: BlackSwan.... Let’s focus on the fifth question: I’m interested to know how I could improve my witnessing…?
It seems to me that the world is full of Christians- older Christians that complain to me that they missed their opportunities to serve God. They were always busy getting an education; a career; raising a family... I think however that you will not be among their number. It seems that you are a called evangelist- by the way you talk, your heart attitude etc. You will have the courage, boldness and zeal that makes the difference between doing and dreaming. So here is my advice: Take a year and study the great preachers and evangelists past and present; their methods, techniques and logical arguments for the gospel. When you are seventeen go out and preach the gospel with some like minded believers and you may be surprised at the results you can get. You can still do all the other things as you grow up- as well as have fun- as they are not really a hindrance to the gospel at all.
Also there is a verse that says, 'The joy of the Lord is your strength', and you may want to consider how being a joyful person can indeed make you a more effective Christian. How does someone become joyful? By the meeting of spiritual and natural things: Taking time for yourself to do the things you like, whether its playing golf or going out with friends... but also in asking the Lord to give you a gift of inner joy THAT WILL BE SPIRITUAL STRENGTH!
It is refreshing to hear a young Christian who isn't focussed totally on superficial things and just having fun. You can have fun that the Lord approves of however as long as it is balanced with the things of the Spirit. The key word is balance. Stay on course and by the time you are an old relic you will have saved a lot of souls - under God.
I'm surprised at your response. Usually Christians would say to me; "Relic, from these things you've said I can tell that you struggle with sin" and "you don't rely on God's Wisdom, but on human understanding" (after I quote several Bible verses) and let's not forget all the classic accusations of "you won't want to here this, Relic, but the truth is you're an arrogant young man" "who do you think you are?" "you obviously just want attention" etc. etc. (I could go on and on).
In answer to what you said: it's not me who gives you or anyone else hope; that is God and He alone. There's no need for you to complement or praise me in any way as I've done nothing to deserve it.
It's good for the young to respect their elders (I'm not sure how old you are, but you're obviously more than sixteen) so, I'm interested to hear words that are salted with grace and wisdom?
Also, now that I've introduced myself giving much more information than I usually would, what about you, Laurie Ann?
For instance, would you say that you are an angry, sad or joyful person and why? Would you say that you focus more on coming closer to God *or* on things like financial issues, family, work and other things? Do you read the Bible often? And what about favourite books and verses in the Bible? This is quite important; what's your general opinion on the world today?
Thanks for the advice. I might research such things on Sundays in order to honour the Sabbath. (I've been trying to think of a way to honour it for a while now.)
It's nice to meet someone with such good advice to give.
Thank you and God bless.
-------------------- Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
It does help to know that you are young, but, maybe some of the criticisms that you mentioned... of being arrogant, rude, condescending, and disrespectful... should be heeded. Being patient, understanding, and even a bit reserved in your outward zeal, will get you a lot further. This is what is referred to as "seasoning" or "maturity".
I would still rather punch you in the nose for calling me a LIAR three times and then making the very public and very ASSININE assumption that I don't give a hoot about the persecuted church. Don't worry though... even though I would like to... I won't. See... that's called seasoning.
I used to be just like you. That is why I mentioned being a good debater. You will see that by softening and limiting your responses, you will make your points to be much more effective for the audience.
"In answer to what you said: it's not me who gives you or anyone else hope; that is God and He alone. There's no need for you to complement or praise me in any way as I've done nothing to deserve it." - Relic
The above statement may be intended as being humble, however, it comes across as very condescending and arrogant because you are correcting her. It does not show respect for your elders. It would have been better to say "thank you" to Laurie Anne for pointing out that there are very few young people with your zeal for the faith, and, then proceed to how you are concerned for your classmates.
"It's good for the young to respect their elders (I'm not sure how old you are, but you're obviously more than sixteen) so, I'm interested to hear words that are salted with grace and wisdom?" - Relic
Once again, here we see a reply to a question that was not asked, and to which you are demanding a reciprocal action. ex: I take it that you are a good singer Relic.. so sing for me and make it beautiful!.... Truthfully I don't want to hear you sing. I hope you get the point. This statement, no matter the intent, is condescending at best.
"Also, now that I've introduced myself giving much more information than I usually would, what about you, Laurie Ann?" - Relic
Once again you are nearly demanding that Laurie Anne now open up to you in response to your questions. This is a very impertinent response. Not fitting of one of humility and quietness of spirit that knowing Him should bring.
The others here may coddle you with praises of being young and having faith, but, faith without love isn't a Christian concept. Relic, I hope you can find your way through this without getting punched by anyone. If you've taken blows for what you've said, look first at how you said it. Maybe you deserved it. Don't ever claim martyrdom when it's just you being a jerk.
I have kids about your age, which gives you an idea how ancient I am.
Wow, the world. I'll tell you. I'm reading a lot of politics and apocalyptic (sp?) fiction right now, as well as trying to read bigger chunks of the Bible at one sitting to get my mind around the flow of God's history, to see where we are and where we are headed.
I'm farming, because I see that our food supply is becoming limited and polluted, and believe that it is the responsibility of those who "see the signs of the times and know what [spiritual] Israel should do", to have something to share with those in need when the time comes. I'm doing this instead of living the comfortable, middle class life that my husband's career as a computer whiz "entitles" us to.
I'm not angry but I am very passionate about the things of God. We have made many sacrifices many times because of conviction that everything we have is ours to use for the service of God, his people, and the world.
If I were to live the easy way, I would have a little house in the suburbs, send my kids to school, have a professional job as a teacher and be in music minstry at a big emerging church. Instead, I shovel manure, lend money to people who don't repay, scrabble with house churchers, raise my own children 24/7 and live on the back side of beyond with neighbors I'd prefer not to associate with, if it were up to (the carnal) me. I've given up television, microwaves, support groups and classical music in exchange for community, fermented food, family and farming. All that to be obedient to what I believe God wants us to be.
We, as a family, have big dreams about where all this is headed. We are joyful and enthusiastic, and are trying to live what we believe day by day and be sensitive to the Spirit - willing to give everything up in a moment if God says, "Go". We've done it before, and probably will do it again.
Like the apostle Paul, I don't mind defending my privilege to be heard! Even if Jon thinks you were a bit rough on me *o*
quote:Originally posted by FastDaddy: Relic,... The others here may coddle you with praises of being young and having faith, but, faith without love isn't a Christian concept. Relic, I hope you can find your way through this without getting punched by anyone. If you've taken blows for what you've said, look first at how you said it. Maybe you deserved it. Don't ever claim martyrdom when it's just you being a jerk.
Jon
'Without love I am nothing' said Paul the apostle. Those who believe they can see your motives and judge you - condemn you and insult you while quoting scripture are themselves contradicting scriptures- such as not insulting a brother or using coarse language. They only condemn themselves. So who am I writing to? Who truly loves? Where do I sense Christ's Spirit?
Love is definitely here. I could have used you at my side when I preached the gospel or when I taught on holiness of life in the Church- and was always condemned for not having love.
Do I get hammered by Satan? Who has the Spirit of Jesus in them like a rising star? Who has 'eyes to see'?
The more we are rejected and despised the more we will be embraced by angels and consequently the more joyful we will become. In the flesh there is misery but the flesh is always a worldly delusion; in the spirit always joy and strength. So take heart, you'll need strength for all the work you have to do. God is speaking even now in ways that few can comprehend.
God is speaking even now in ways that few can comprehend. [/QB]
Could this be why we are confused and divided? Does that not provide the one direction we ought to go and find certainty?
- Please Lord Father, Lord Son and Lord Holy Spirit, bring us to settle with Your quietening silence of patient wisdom within each one's inner chamber where You dine with us and teach us to know Your voice and to respond accordingly...amen to Your Yes in us all...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
- Please Lord Father, Lord Son and Lord Holy Spirit, bring us to settle with Your quietening silence of patient wisdom within each one's inner chamber where You dine with us and teach us to know Your voice and to respond accordingly...amen to Your Yes in us all...
Where one and one and one is one Where darkness is as bright as the sun Where a movement of the will cannot be perceived Where three is one and one is free.
I hope you like my bad poetry Benoit. I think you will appreciate it.
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If you know what you mean, there is no bad poetry.
The bit you offer carries mighty weight with it; the weight of all being brought in all by the fulness of holy glory!
Such is the prescription to surf our way on earth, improvising upon the currency of times with the Spirit of grace and truth supplying the Eternal's movement against all odds...
Thanks for the deep breath of vertical and horizontal freedom...
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
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Oh, Gosh! I know where my towel is! But I had to get DD to remind me!
Anyway, Back to the original reason for this entry, FastDaddy, you've been interacting a bit -- have you been finding any answers for your particular situation in Iowa here yet?
For example, have you read any of the books ref'd in the resources and so on?
And, since it sounds like you are finding HC more because of an IC closure than a philosophical hunt, have you found anything here that has encouraged you to look deeper/further at the spiritual dimension, or are we scaring you off of HC as a permanent alternative?
I'm tired of speaking with you; before I gave you some points in a debate but, having no answer, you ran away from subjects brought up by a sixteen-year-old boy.
Now, however, FastDaddy, you suddenly return with fruitless accusations, but no answers to the points I brought up previouly. Fine, FastDaddy, have it your way; I will answer *all* of your accusations- but I'm tired.
1 I quote you: "I would rather punch you in the nose for calling me a LIAR three times and then making the very public and very ASSININE assumption that I don't give a hoot about the persecuted church. Don't worry though... even though I would like to... I won't. See... that's called seasoning."
My answer: And yet, I have already stated why I made this "assumption" as you would call it; sarcastic jokes brought up in a very serious discussion regarding persecution. Even now you haven't managed to answer the meaning of this.
2 I quote you FastDaddy: "The above statement may be intended as being humble, however, it comes across as very condescending and arrogant because you are correcting her. It does not show respect for your elders. It would have been better to say "thank you" to Laurie Anne for pointing out that there are very few young people with your zeal for the faith, and, then proceed to how you are concerned for your classmates."
My answer: when a Christian is praised, and that Christian refuses praise saying "don't thank me! Thank God!" Basically you're saying that this is arrogance?
3 "It's good for the young to respect their elders (I'm not sure how old you are, but you're obviously more than sixteen) so, I'm interested to hear words that are salted with grace and wisdom?" - Relic
Once again, here we see a reply to a question that was not asked, and to which you are demanding a reciprocal action. ex: I take it that you are a good singer Relic.. so sing for me and make it beautiful!.... Truthfully I don't want to hear you sing. I hope you get the point. This statement, no matter the intent, is condescending at best.
My answer: Okay then; so basically what you're saying here is that when a younger Christian asks an elder Christian to give him advice, that is "demanding a reciprocal action".
4
"Also, now that I've introduced myself giving much more information than I usually would, what about you, Laurie Ann?" - Relic
Once again you are nearly demanding that Laurie Anne now open up to you in response to your questions. This is a very impertinent response. Not fitting of one of humility and quietness of spirit that knowing Him should bring.
My Answer: so basically, when someone introduces himself and then asks "how about you?" this also, is demanding of others?
5 Finally, FastDaddy, you finished with "The others here may coddle you with praises of being young and having faith, but, faith without love isn't a Christian concept. Relic, I hope you can find your way through this without getting punched by anyone. If you've taken blows for what you've said, look first at how you said it. Maybe you deserved it. Don't ever claim martyrdom when it's just you being a jerk."
My Conclusive answer: notice that for all of your accusations, I have not answered at all, but merely summarised what you've told me in simpler terms; you say that refusing praise and asking others to give glory to God is arrogance, you say that politely asking something of someone else is rude and demanding.
Finally you finish by saying that *I* should first look at how *I* said what I said, you say that I have faith but not love in my heart. All Laurie Ann did for me (and if you're reading this, know I'm grateful, Laurie Ann) was to give me some positive encouragement. Yet this obviously didn't rest well with you, because you came along and said that I am "coddled with praises", an implication of some spoiled brat that has come used to living an easy life; but you don't know me, FastDaddy. On top of all this your post is filled with sharp insults.
How could I reply to someone who thinks in the way you do, and when it comes down to it, what's the point in attempting to do so?
Therefore, I have not truly answered you at all, FastDaddy, only repeated everything you've said and explained what you're trying to tell me. Why? Because I don't *need* to answer you FastDaddy, since your own words tell more to everyone here about yourself than I ever could. There's no need for me to waste my breath on answering such twisted and ludicrous ideas, nor waste my breath on cruel insults- even though you did.
You clearly stated that you "wouldn't like to hear me sing" and so instead of singing for you, I've merely held up a mirror. I hope you at least have the wisdom in you to gaze at your reflection, and meditate on it- and if you don't have that wisdom, I only pray you get it.
May God bless you, FastDaddy, but unless you have something constructive to say, I ask only that you please leave me alone.
Email this page to someone.
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