My wife & I have been "in ministry" for the last 20 years and feel like the servant whose eyes were opened in response to Elisha's prayer (2 Kings 6:17.)
The writing has always been on the wall but it took 2 years of reflection for my spirit to be prepared to have the scales removed from my eyes.
It's been 1 month since we "officially" separated from organized Churchianity and we couldn't be happier.
Now we are meeting together until God connects us with like spirited people to share in God's gifts together.
Many here at this forum have a similar story to your own- I know I do . I rejoice with you, and pray that just as God has brought you to the place you are now, that He will continue to guide you forward! Jer 29:11- He has good plans for you!
I look forward to hearing more about the things God has taught you- and will continue to teach you!
There are several house church directories on the web. Check them out but above all, look to God who loves you and desires that we all be in some sort of fellowship with others. Surely in Chicago there are some like-minded Christians.
Glad that you are here and look forward to hearing more! Feel free to start a new topic or topics.
Praise the name of the Lord! May the Lord direct your path, Path. He is at work on many fronts. May we seek his face in these desperate times.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalms 119:105
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Hey Frank, Welcome! I too have a long history of "ministry" in the church. I too had "my eyes opened". Truth is, it's still happening!!! Care to share more of your story?
My favorite "beginner's book" for advanced students is "There's A Sheep In My Bathtub", the story of the Mongolian House Church Movement. Brian Hogan, the author, not only was part of doing the Kingdom in a way that was totally outside the Western Church way, he has also joined those of us who just plain "don't go to church anymore", despite being a "Career Missionary". http://asteroideabooks.com/page8.html
We're five years into the journey, and I still get amazed by stuff that is stuck in my head that is a "tradition of Man".
Yesterday's revelation was, "Are we supposed to try to evaluate another person's spiritual condition"? First inside-the-box thought, "Yes, of course". Next house-church thought, "No, never."... finally biblical thought, "Sometimes" and "It depends"... Oh! Yeah!
Blessings, Laurie Ann Posing as an Ordinary Housewife
Although God placed me on The Path a few years ago, I was still trying to be a good little church-bot; playing the "ministers" game and looking forward to the manifestations of the "God is going to do great things in your life" and "you have a pastor's heart" as well as the "some day you will pastor your own church," "prophesy" I received from my pastor and visiting clergy.
I always wondered why these men & women of God would pass on the "prophesy" but didn't sit me down and "coach" me on the specifics of their "visions."
If you are supposed to be my "spiritual father" why don't you walk me through this journey?
As you can see, I have a bit of deprogramming to go through.
Anyway, many of my own personal thoughts and such were confirmed when I stumbled upon George Barna's book, Revolution. WOW!!! I wasn't a space alien after all. I wasn't the only one with these questions.
That lead me on a search for knowledge that simply blew my mind. I was embarrassed at the things I didn't know about church history even though I earned an Associates in Divinity and was beginning a Bachelor's program.
Any thoughts to the contrary of my denomination that I brought up to the pastors were covered with "just trust us" platitudes and like a good little church-bot, I fell in line although my wife & I were feeling more and more drained and spiritually empty the harder we tried.
I played guitar in our "praise band" for a few years and began to sicken at the show. I just wanted to praise God but was chastised if I missed a chord or couldn't keep up if they changed keys at the last minute. (I play for pleasure & can't read music) I guess they kept me on because I was a minister and did add a little to their show.
The "straw" came when my wife & I were visiting friends. We were having a good time, eating B-B-Q, playing games, shooting pool talking politics, you know. After a while, somebody mentioned that I was a minister to some visitors and the atmosphere instantly changed. Some began to call me Reverend and Sir and all the things I found out about the two classes of church folk were evident there. Somehow, I was a special person all of a sudden. The "us and them" attitude began. I was no longer Frank the good pool player, or Frank the guy you could talk to; I was now this "super saint" that everybody had to be careful around.
I enjoyed getting to know folk w/o introducing myself as rev.... this or min.... that. After we got to know each other and I shared my faith, some would respond with "I knew there was something different about you" or "I always wondered why I told you things I would never tell anybody else."
I know I rambling now but, that episode made it perfectly clear that I was on the wrong path with church as usual.
The whole clergy/layperson scenario had ruined what God intended for His church.
I think I'll stop now.
Perhaps this should be a new topic like "Tell Us Your Story" or something like that.
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"Church-bot" - excellent word picture, Frank. Did you create that word?
You are dead-on, and it is amazing to hear how the light went on for you. For me it was very similar. It was a certain moment in time that was like an explosion in my brain.
We had been very Successful in the US, by "church standards" and then had been "tentmakers" in Japan for 4 years. We had had great "success" by all Church Metrics. We had brought in the crowds, had the one-on-one opportunities. After four years we had done "so much" and yet... there was so little fruit. I was so grateful for EVERY soul... but I thought, There are 3 billion people with no gospel witness, and at this rate they never will!
I cried out to God, and he said, (and I quote) "I don't WORK in big things. I work in small things."
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I haven't heard or read the word "Church-bot" before so, I hereby "coin" the word: "Church-bot" meaning a person that is caught up in established church tradition and going through the motions because they are "supposed to."
Feel free to add your thoughts as well. This word can be as flexible as you are.
Freedom isn't free, it costs lives. Jesus proved it.
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Well Matthew, right now I am immersing myself in Jesus. As I do, the more I want to share this freedom with others.
I know the uphill climb that is ahead. I have been a bit subtle in my discussions with friends and family in answer to their questions about why I left the institutional church.
As we get closer to the Lord we will begin to invite loved ones to share in our fellowships. We will abstain from inviting current IC going friends for now; we wouldn't want to be accused of prostelitizing or trying to "steal" somebody's flock.
I have been sending weekly ministry newsletters for the past 6 years and have a pretty large subscription base. They have been reading about my frustrations and following my journey for the past year that I decided to take the lid off and share my feelings.
Some of the church members are subscribers (including the pastor) and it will be interesting to see who remains as I grow in boldness in my writings.
Now, there's a good topic. Now that we've left the IC, how do we deal with the people we have grown to love over the years? Some will look at us as heretics or getting "super spooky" and will want to "save" us.
So far those that I have been candid with seemed to accept my assertions that God has us revisiting the early church as Jesus started it.
Since this is a new thing for us, we invite feedback.
I will look through the different topic area for posts that we can use to answer my questions.
quote:Frank said: Well Matthew, right now I am immersing myself in Jesus. As I do, the more I want to share this freedom with others.
This is why I came here! I have actually looked at other home church forums, but going there would mean I would have to "start all over" reasserting everything I have discovered (with the help of others here of course) while here. I really have no patience for that. It has been getting very good around here as of late. I hope you find those here to be like-minded.
quote:Since this is a new thing for us, we invite feedback.
Oh, don't worry about that. You'll get plenty of that here ...and being a minister won't buy you any sugary respect here, so don't worry about that ...and again, welcome to the fray!
quote:I will look through the different topic area for posts that we can use to answer my questions.
That sounds really great! There is a lot of really good discussion here. Hope to hear from you soon!
quote:Originally posted by ThePath: Well Matthew, right now I am immersing myself in Jesus. As I do, the more I want to share this freedom with others.
Sounds beautiful!
quote: I know the uphill climb that is ahead. I have been a bit subtle in my discussions with friends and family in answer to their questions about why I left the institutional church.
One thing I have found is that there is NO predicting who will say, "Hey, that's great!" And who will flip out. Some of my most non-church people have melted down that the "family priest" was checking out of her role. Some people who had "church-bot" written all over them have said, "Tell me all about it!" We've had pastors be ready to lay hands on us, in both ways
quote: As we get closer to the Lord we will begin to invite loved ones to share in our fellowships. We will abstain from inviting current IC going friends for now; we wouldn't want to be accused of proseletyzing or trying to "steal" somebody's flock.
Hmmm... who's flock is it again? We have just been careful to not invite church people during "regular church times" and we do NOT hold "meetings". We have a barbecue, have a meal, have a play-date... We "do" Acts 2:42 (eat, talk about the Kingdom, pray and love on each other)... and then, if we feel led, point out that we just DID all and only what the "early church" did.
Not to tell you what to do, or anything, but just to point out that getting together doesn't really have to seem at all like you are inviting people to leave church. It is only when we do what Jesus did, and invite people to give up religion and join the "REAL KINGDOM _INSTEAD_" that people get upset.
For example, when I point out that we are staying home on Sundays to be available to be the Kingdom to our neighbors, that draws a line in the sand where people either say, "Oh, I see how that is what Jesus wanted" or "How dare you not be in church?"
quote: I haven't heard or read the word "Church-bot" before so, I hereby "coin" the word: "Church-bot" meaning a person that is caught up in established church tradition and going through the motions because they are "supposed to."
Oops! Churchbot is a "transformer" church that seeks to foce everyone to be as "righteous" as the church. It's a comic figure. (see SINFEST.NET and DAMNIT.ORG)
And, the term "church bot" was coined many years ago (1851) in a book about establishing church rates which were assessments and levies impossed by local government to support the church.
Wikipedia defines bot as - a colloquial term, typically used in the UK, short for "bottom", i.e., bum, ass etc.
What great conversations there are going on this week!
I would agree with many of the statements here, and add that immersing ourselves in Jesus is deffinately the way to go! How can we be changed by Him, or be used by Him, if we are not immersing ourselves in abiding in Him?
When my Husband and I left the IC (my husband had been an elder for many years) we also experienced a number of reactions from people. I remember one that was a bit hurtful was being accused of spiritual pride for thinking that we could do any better than those who had been specially trained in seminary. But overall, I have been amazed at the number of positive and interested responses that we get from all kinds of people. I look forward to any stories you have to share as you continue on this journey you are on, Frank.
Oh- and I like your use of the term church-bot. I think it describes very well the state that many christians are in- as it is one that is unfortunately fostered by the traditional church.
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Oh, and one more thing Frank... These two ladies, (Laurie Ann and Jeanne H.) are more than just a wealth of wonderful information. They have been living this stuff for years. When I first came here, I thought myself a heretic. However, it didn't take me long to discover that I was right at home!
The truth is, this has been the vast majority of my fellowship (I just won't stoop to calling it church) now for almost a year!
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Ah, well!! Our definition of church-bot is now added to colloquialisms list, and means, "church adherent whose religious practices are repetitious and mindless, as in, like a robot."
Jeanne said,
quote: I remember one that was a bit hurtful was being accused of spiritual pride for thinking that we could do any better than those who had been specially trained in seminary.
I know you would never say anything this mean, Jeanne, but what I say to that is...
"We may not do better than the Seminarians... but we can't possibly do worse."
I mean, zero growth? A reputation for shallowness and sinfulness? A complete absence of any culture influence in our own communities?
What, one wonders, would a seminarian have to look down on me for?
quote:Originally posted by JeffL: Oops! Churchbot is a "transformer" church that seeks to foce everyone to be as "righteous" as the church. It's a comic figure. (see SINFEST.NET and DAMNIT.ORG)
And, the term "church bot" was coined many years ago (1851) in a book about establishing church rates which were assessments and levies impossed by local government to support the church.
Wikipedia defines bot as - a colloquial term, typically used in the UK, short for "bottom", i.e., bum, ass etc.
Thinking back on my church days, I'm sad to say I was not only a church-bot, but I was also a church-bot programmer! For so many years I just sat and listened, and then just taught what I had been taught! I guess if there is any consolation, it is the fact that my heart was in the right place.
After I returned from the mission field in 1993, I realized (in 1994) that I had been in church all of my life, and I didn't really have a close relationship with "God" (He was somewhere way out there).
When I truly began to seek Him, I found Him and He became my Lord, my Life, and my Love. After going through many trials via christians (so called) I really began struggling with everything.
I came here during that struggle ...which I admit is still (somewhat) ongoing (but in a totally different way). I've had to pretty much rework everything (faith wise) while here, but I have "enjoyed" finding new freedom.
Currently, I'm trying to find my personal balance between "The Word" and "The Scriptures" having come from the "Word a minute" walk ...that lead me to almost being destroyed (I've talked about this here on the RCC before). Any insights?
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I think the most common usage today is pew potatoe. But- if there is no one(like us) to give them an alternative- what choice do they have?
What if we each go to the temple Sundays, stand up during announcements, or prayer requests, if they have them, or fellowship after, and tell these new practioners of laws and rituals about the great promise of life in Christ. It is a lot to ask. But I believe when have such biblical boldness-conviction- we will fulfill our mandate.
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You know what guys (and gals)? I'm having a BALL here!
This is the first time in a long time I've been able to open up about how I REALLY feel about the last couple of years in my walk with the Lord as filtered by the IC.
Thank you all for you insights and encouraging words.
I think many of us that were "in ministry" were sincere in what we were doing given the education we received and trusted from our "leaders."
I guess the term "blind faith" is an appropriate view of most of our stories. We heard and believed and followed what we believed. No problem there, but as I've been told more than once before "once you know better, you do better."
O what a friend we have in Jesus. He has lead us into His glorious light with knowledge far beyond the cemeteries (oops... seminaries)
Email this page to someone.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
. I rejoice with you, and pray that just as God has brought you to the place you are now, that He will continue to guide you forward! Jer 29:11- He has good plans for you!![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Care to share more of your story?![[Frown]](frown.gif)
For so many years I just sat and listened, and then just taught what I had been taught! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I guess if there is any consolation, it is the fact that my heart was in the right place.
