Well, one thing society admits; that you really can't become close to more than 60 people. So does this suggest a "proper" upper limit on the size of gatherings? Not sure, but churches seem to get proportionally colder with size.
posted
Assuming - and I realize that everyone doesn't - that the meal of remebrance was to be a real meal, it appears to me that the house church setting would be best. The idea is fellowship which can be lost, even in small groups - how much more in huge groups?
As for informing the whole church that a brother or sister hadn't repented after he or she was contacted privately, this process would be difficult, but I do not say impossible, in the modern mega-church format. (See Matthew 18 for the process details.) If there were thousands of people at a meeting, the process might consume a great amount of time.
Several speakers were to address the assembly and every saint had the right "to judge," that is, to question or add comments. This according to 1 Cor 14. Twould be very difficult in a large setting but I do not say altogether impossible.
Think of all the grief and sorrow which could have been prevented if the clergy - mostly outsiders, btw - could have been challenged when they came to a local church preaching a "new" gospel... If you are not aware of it, most of the major denominations are far more liberal than most in their local churches realize. Ditto for their seminaries.
Prayer. Large groups limit corporate prayer, imo, as only a tiny fraction of those present could or would participate.
Certainly, house church meetings give seclusion when it is needed. Many in Arab nations are marked for death when they become Christians.
And surely, home churches do nor require funds to build or maintain. Such monies might be used for other and better things.
Was it God's intent that the gatherings were to be intimate with a high degree of accountability? If so, then you see why the apostles didn't encourage the construction of special buildings, which all other religions of the day availed themselves to, btw.
"Know you not that YOU are the temple of the Lord?"
I'm not going to attempt to address all of the concerns you raised. Just wanted to add a comment or two.
Fellowship is a good thing, but gathering to worship is much more than merely fellowshiping with others. All week long we interact with each other but what we don't do is spend much time with God developing that relationship. The way we spend our time is an accurate measurement of what we consider important to us. If we dislike a particular person or event we will find an way to excuse ourselves. But if we enjoy being around a person or we enjoy a particular event we will put forth effort to be there. If we love the person or event we will make time to be there.
Jim Croce' wrote a song called, "Time in a Bottle," in which a verse stated, "If I could save time in a bottle, The first thing that I'd like to do, is to save everyday 'til eternity passes away, just to spend it with you." Then the chorus says, "But, there never seems to be enough time, to do the things you want to do, once you find them. I've looked around enough to know, you're the one I want to go, through time with." It is really a beautiful song.
Originally, the Sabbath was like time in a bottle. Or, perhaps more like suspended time. It was a time to lay aside everything else just to spend it with God. It was to be called a delight because we were spending it with the person we love the most. I believe it is also a revealer of the heart. Will we lay aside a full day out of our week to dedicate it to worshiping God? A time to think of nothing secular? When I say, "Will we" I am referring to choice. Will we choose to do this or will we find it a burden too hard to bear? The answer to that question reveals our true heart in a way that nothing else can do it. By this, the hypocrit can know his standing with God, whether his heart is right or not. No wonder the enemy of our souls led Israel to turned the Sabbath day into a burden and the mordern church to turn it into an hour long, weekly, liturgical obligation. Both destroy the joy that is to attend the Sabbath.
How does the home church interpret and practice this weekly worship? Do they follow the tradition of the church with an hour-long service? Or, do they spend an entire day calling it a delight?
Also, when people meet in their own homes, who foots the bill? In a church setting the expenses are shared through offerings. I happen to know that carpet cannot take heavy foot traffic for long. Plus there are the paper items or towels for restroom privileges. Is an offering collected to help repair, maintain, and supply the needs of the Saints?
Again, I see how central the Sabbath rest is to your world view. I am not in the least threatened by this as I see little danger in a set time or period to enjoy God. I didn't see the connection to this thread until I read your words about true fellowship.
Back to the suitability of house churches to the Lord's will for his church, does anything else come to mind pro or con?
Just came online this morning to start a new thread here and discovered this one (just started a few days ago!) I think what I had in mind is much along the line of this one so I'll not start a new one.
The other day, I discovered the following poem on this site which really got me thinking:
There's A Church In Your House
There's a church in your house And it meets ev'ry day. Our lives make the text As we live them each day. While you do the small tasks Which may fall to your lot, You perform them for Christ, And not one is forgot!
When a fam'ly is come Then the Lord will be there; For it pleases Him well When you meet Him in prayer. Once a fam'ly is saved And the Scripture is read, You soon know you are one And that Christ is the Head!
As you pray, as you sing, You don't wish then to roam For the joy of your faith And of sharing at home! Every word that you say Shows the faith that's inside- There's a church in your house When in Christ you abide.
Katherine Ballard Anderson
(BTW, David, is Katherine your wife?)
As a result of considering this poem, I want to ask you all, What is the significance of a church "IN YOUR HOUSE"?
Is the significance the LOCATION (i.e. the meeting is held IN A BUILDING WHICH IS A PLACE OF HUMAN HABITATION) OR, is the significance the RELATION (i.e. the gathering is IN RELATION TO A FAMILY OR HOUSEHOLD and indeed functioning as a family or household)?
If a religious organization simply transplants its' "services" into a house, but continues to function as an organization with clergy/laity distinctions, with organized programs which distinguish between "active participants" and "passive spectators" and which divide families into "peer groups" according to age, AND DOES NOT function as a family, IS IT TRULY A HOUSE CHURCH?
On the other hand, if a group of believers lead by a family or household meets in a "church building" but functions as a family does (with no clergy/laity distinctions and all the believers edifying and exhorting one another, and interacting with all age levels together) is it not a house church?
Consider the following evidence:
(1)"HOUSE" (Strong's #3624, OIKOS) designates a "family" or "household" in at least 29 out of 116 verses of scripture where it is used.
Matthew 10:6 the house <3624> of Israel. Matthew 15:24 the house <3624> of Israel. Luke 1:27 of the house <3624> of David; Luke 1:33 reign over the house <3624> of Jacob Luke 1:69 in the house <3624> of his servant David; Luke 2:4 he was of the house <3624> and lineage of David:) Luke 16:27 send him to my father's house <3624>: Acts 2:36 the house <3624> of Israel Acts 7:42 O ye house <3624> of Israel, Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house <3624>, Acts 11:14 thou and all thy house <3624> shall be saved. Acts 16:15 she was baptized, and her household <3624>, Acts 16:31 thou shalt be saved, and thy house <3624>. Acts 18:8 Crispus believed on the Lord with all his house <3624>; 1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household <3624> of Stephanas: 1 Timothy 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house <3624>, having his children in subjection 1 Timothy 3:5 if a man know not how to rule his own house <3624>, 1 Timothy 3:12 ruling their children and their own houses <3624> well. 2 Timothy 1:16 The Lord give mercy unto the house <3624> of Onesiphorus; 2 Timothy 4:19 the household <3624> of Onesiphorus. Titus 1:11 who subvert whole houses <3624>, Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house <3624>; whose house <3624> are we, Hebrews 8:8 I will make a new covenant with the house <3624> of Israel and with the house <3624> of Judah: Hebrews 8:10 this is the covenant that I will make with the house <3624> of Israel Hebrews 10:21 an high priest over the house <3624> of God; Hebrews 11:7 Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house <3624> ; 1 Peter 2:5 Ye are built up a spiritual house <3624>, 1 Peter 4:17 judgment must begin at the house <3624> of God:
(2) In scripture, whenever the expression "in the house"is used to answer the question "where?" or to designate a LOCATION, the Greek word "EN" (in) is used. Matthew 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in <1722> kings' houses <3624>. Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in <1722> one house <3624> divided, three against two, and two against three. Luke 19:5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at <1722> thy house <3624>. John 11:20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in <1722> the house <3624>. Acts 7:20 In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in <1722> his father's house <3624> three months: Acts 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in <1722> my house <3624>, and, behold, a man stood before me in <1722> bright clothing, Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in <1722> his house <3624>, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 1 Corinthians 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at <1722> home <3624>; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. 1 Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at <1722> home <3624> : for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. Hebrews 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in <1722> all his house <3624>. Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in <1722> all his house <3624>, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
(3)But whenever the expression "in the house" is used to answer the question "with whom?" or to designate a RELATION, the Greek word "KATA" (pertaining to) is used: Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily <2596> with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from <2596> house to house <3624>, (i.e. "in households or families") did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in (every) <2596> house <3624>, (i.e. "in households or families") they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into (every )<2596> house <3624>, (i.e. "into households or families") and haling men and women committed them to prison. Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from <2596> house to house <3624> (i.e. "in households or families"), Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in <2596> their house <3624> (i.e. "in their household or family"). Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. 1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in <2596> their house <3624> (i.e. "in their household or family"). Colossians 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in <2596> his house <3624> (i.e. "in their household or family"). Philemon 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in <2596> thy house <3624> (i.e. "in your household or family"):
(4) Notice two scripture texts where the words "EN" (Strongs' # 1722) and KATA (Strongs' # 2596) are used in the same verse: Acts 5:42 And daily in <1722> the temple (LOCATION), and in <2596>(every) house <3624> (RELATION), they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. Colossians 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in <1722> Laodicea (LOCATION), and Nymphas, and the church which is in <2596> his house <3624> (RELATION).
I would appreciate hearing the thoughts of others in this regard!
Just a few comments on your post from last Thursday at 15:04:
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the Lord's supper is to be a full meal and that small gatherings are best suited for the fellowship that is to be expressed as we eat together and remember our Lord!
Re. church discipline (Matt.18), many in a whole church (mega city church) would not even know who the person was who was being dealt with! But if it is a house church in view, everyone would know them well!
Re. challenging "clergy" re. their doctrines, as you said, all such who took such a distinct position would be "outsiders" and their "deeds of the Nicolaitans" (ruling over the people) should certainly be judged in accordance with such passages as I Peter 5:3.
I also agree with you that large groups drasticly limit corporate prayer. There are some "churches" right in our community which occasionally schedule "days of prayer". But when they come together for these, the only participants are the clergy! There is prayer and there is preaching (I think much more of the latter than of the former!)
You wrote:"Certainly, house church meetings give seclusion when it is needed. Many in Arab nations are marked for death when they become Christians."
I think this is a very important observation to make! "Church services" in our culture have come to be perceived as "public meetings". Certainly whole church gatherings were and ought to be open to the public. However, house church gatherings, just like any family gathering is for family members and those who are personally invited into that home. When an unrepentant believer is dealt with as in Matt.18 or I Cor.5, the invitation to that person to gatherings in that home is cancelled!
Your observation is so true that funds (the greater percentage of offerings of most religious congregations are wasted on buildings and salaries) can be invested for much greater eternal value when saints simply meet in each other's homes! You also wrote:"Several speakers were to address the assembly and every saint had the right "to judge," that is, to question or add comments. This according to 1 Cor 14. Twould be very difficult in a large setting but I do not say altogether impossible."
Brother, could I suggest another look at I Cor.14 in this regard? The first Corinthian epistle was not addressed to a house church, but rather to the entire church of God in the city of Corinth. That church was composed of ALL in Corinth who were sanctified in Christ Jesus. (I Cor.1:2)
Could I suggest that the regulations of I Cor.14:23-40 were NOT given for house church gatherings? Rather the text seems to indicate they were given for gatherings when the whole church (all the saints at Corinth) came together INTO ONE PLACE! (14:23)
In house church gatherings there are often many conversations which are NOT intended for the edification of ALL in the gathering. But all speaking in a I Cor.14 type gathering is to be done ONE AT A TIME and MUST be for the edification of all. (everyone in the gathering must be able to hear every word spoken! (14:27-31)
Sisters have every opportunity to participate vocally to exhort and edify others in house church gatherings, and to converse with others as they eat meals together. (Heb.10:24,25; Acts 1 and 2, Acts 18:26 etc) But in I Cor.14 type gatherings as recorded in Acts 2:46a; Acts 6:1-7 and Acts 15, all the speaking is done by males, it is done one speaker at a time, and in such large gatherings there is never any mention of breaking of bread!
I know that many believers have great difficulty seeing that I Cor.14 does NOT have a small house church gathering in view. But it is much easier to understand when we realize that we are all familiar with two distinct kinds of family gatherings: (1)There are family gatherings where eating of meals, the vocal participation of all, and interactive and participatory conversations are the expected norm. These are the most common and daily family interaction IN THE HOME is a prime example. (2)There are other kinds of family gatherings where eating of food, where interactive, participatory conversation would be totally OUT OF ORDER, and where everyone knows that there is to be ONE SPEAKER AT A TIME WHO IS TO BE HEARD BY ALL. Weddings, funerals etc are examples of this kind of family gatherings. These are generally much larger gatherings than the former and not nearly as frequent. Such gatherings are usually convened in venues much larger than a home. In like manner, the small house church gatherings are much more frequent and much smaller, but whole church gatherings in one place are larger and not usually as frequent.
Is it possible that viewing I Cor.14:23-40 as regulating whole city church gatherings rather than house church gatherings would be more true to the text? Is it true that when prophets speak in I Cor.14 meetings that "every saint has the right to judge, that is to question or add comments"??
-First, women are to be silent and not to speak in such gatherings (v.34,35) -In the expression in verse 29, "let the other judge", the word "other" is the Greek word ALLOS which, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, designates "distinction of objects OF SIMILAR CHARACTER OR SORT". On the other hand, the Greek word HETEROS designates a "distinction of objects OF A DIFFERENT CHARACTER OR SORT." This distinction would thus teach that when a prophet speaks the other PROPHETS are to judge (i.e. others of the same sort) Likewise, in the very next verse, the word ALLOS is also used in "If anything be revealed to ANOTHER (of the same sort, i.e. another prophet) let the first (prophet) hold his peace." This "holding of his peace" is the very same expression used of the women who are to be "silent" and "not to speak". It is the same expression used of the tongues speaker if there is no interpretter...."let him KEEP SILENCE." This does NOT allow for questions and answers or discussion! The first prophet is to be as silent as the women and as the tongues speaker when there is no interpretter! As far as I see it, this is another reason why this cannot be a house church gathering.
Finally, you wrote:"Was it God's intent that the gatherings were to be intimate with a high degree of accountability? If so, then you see why the apostles didn't encourage the construction of special buildings, which all other religions of the day availed themselves to, btw."
Brother, I wholeheartedly agree with you that house church gatherings are to be intimate, face to face, eyeball to eyeball kind of gatherings. However, could I question whether intimacy and one anothering ministry really means that there is a "high degree of accountability"? (I'm assuming you are referring to accountability of saints one to another.)
Brother,if you used the words "responsibility", "care", "ministry", "service" etc I would not object at all. But please don't think I'm just dealing here with semantics! Does not "accountability" always have to do with the giving of DIRECTION for one's service, and of the giving of EVALUATION of that service? Is not "accountability" or the "giving of account" of believers in scripture always an acountability TO GOD? Did the apostles ever hold others "acountable" to themselves or view themselves as "accountable" to other saints? Did they not rather teach that believers' accountability was always a vertical or Godward one?
Giving or taking of account, reckoning etc in the following texts of scripture teach us the scriptural doctrine of accountability: Matt.12:36; Matt.18:23; Matt.25:19; Luke 16:2; Rom.14:12; Heb.4:13; Heb.13:17; and I Peter 4:5.
Nay our discussion together always bring us to search the scriptures daily whether these things are so!
Email this page to someone.
