posted
I'm not sure if David understands that if elders were simply older men, It would not have been needed for Paul to give instructions concerning qualifications of elders.
Likewise, Dianne saying that all spiritually mature people are elders is like saying that all people that can play football are NFL coaches. The "office" of elder is a function of the local church (body) , therefore an elder is only an elder withion his own church and is just a brother anywhere else.
Like David, I fail to see what is so difficult to understand here.
Derek
[This post was moved from an unrelated category by admin.]
David Anderson
posted
Hi Derek,
I wish I had your email address so I could have informed you that your post was moved from the "Female Elder" thread. It is imperative that we keep things reasonably organized, otherwise visitors are just gonna waste a lot of time downloading that we they are not looking for.
Speaking of imperatives, the so-called "qualifications" of Tim 3 and Titus are just that - imperatives for the patriarchs of the churches. They are what "qualify" elders to perform the work of oversight. Naturally, would the overseers of the church be held to high standards as even all Christians are held to high standards. But oversight or bishoping is a work - not an office.
Note that these same requirements are made of Christians, in general. Gene Getz says that all but one were in the popular "Measure of a Man." I say all.
Good question, brother. It does raise another question or two, I am aware. See ya soon, I hope.
David Anderson Tennessee
RossJPurdy
posted
Elder is a matter of age! Qualified elders were appointed as overseerers. This is not an office, but rather a function in the Body, i.e., it is not a position in an organization. There is no authority with the function. They are leaders by example and not rulers. Such are equipped by the Scriptures having been trained in the established/mature Body environment and have assumed all functions once carried out by those first century saints gifted with edification gifts. Thus the gifts listed in 1Cor 12-14, Rom 12, Eph 4 are superfluous and inferior to the present means of equipping the saints and have not functioned since the first century. We need elders who are qualified to be overseerers to lead and edify the Body since there are no edification gifts to serve the same purpose and functions.
posted
Hi Ross, You wrote:"Elder is a matter of age! Qualified elders were appointed as overseerers. This is not an office, but rather a function in the Body, i.e., it is not a position in an organization. There is no authority with the function. They are leaders by example and not rulers."
I wholeheartedly agree with these statements you've made relative to elders. They are all made clear by statements in scripture such as are found relative to elders in Acts 20:28; I Tim.3 and Hebrews 13:17.
However I have some questions relative to your further statements as follows:" Such are equipped by the Scriptures having been trained in the established/mature Body environment and have assumed all functions once carried out by those first century saints gifted with edification gifts. Thus the gifts listed in 1Cor 12-14, Rom 12, Eph 4 are superfluous and inferior to the present means of equipping the saints and have not functioned since the first century. We need elders who are qualified to be overseerers to lead and edify the Body since there are no edification gifts to serve the same purpose and functions."
My questions are these: (1)What statement or statements of scripture have taught you that elders "have assumed all functions once carried out by those first century saints gifted with edification gifts"??? As I understand I Tim.3, it seems to indicate that the only ability or gift that is essential for overseers is the aptitude to TEACH. But this certainly does not at all infer that others do not have a spiritual gift to teach. (2)What statement(s) of scripture have taught you that "the gifts listed in 1Cor 12-14, Rom 12, Eph 4 are superfluous and inferior to the present means of equipping the saints"??? (3)What statement(s) of scripture have taught you that the gifts of I Cor 12-14, Rom.12 and Eph.4 "have not functioned since the first century"?? (4)What statement(s) of scripture have taught you that since there are no edification gifts, leadership and edification of the Body is the sole responsibility of elders qualified to be overseers??? (5)Do you mean to maintain that such scriptural statements as Romans 12:6-8; I Cor.12:7,11,18; Ephesians 4:12; I Peter 4:10,11, etc are no longer applicable to new covenant believers since the first century???
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