How do you reconcile "Well- Maybe you feel lost because you are no longer 'doing' and are beginning to just 'be'", with "...Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. For God is working in you, giving you the DESIRE and the POWER to do what pleases him."
Are these two in conflict? One tends toward activety, the other toward inactivity. Are you speaking merely of "doing church" and "being church"?
Matthew, hope you don't mind hearing from a guy. Sometimes I feel "lost" also. Mostly since I lost my job and am sitting home retired while my wife works. Personally, I think men are either born to win the bread or trained to think that way. I fill unfulfilled unless I am accomplishing something. It can be very rewarding to do something until its done. After all, our Lord did curse the ground to be a blessing to us (so we would have to work harder and stay busy just to eat and to teach us the consequences of sin).
Also, sometimes I suffer from mild depression if I don't get outside in the sun and exercise. I am outside a lot in the summer, but in the winter it can feel too cold--especially if I am moving slowly.
Try to get some sunshine and exercise (outdoors, preferably). Get your rest, drink plenty of water, and don't overeat or snack. You don't drink (alcohol), so that is not a factor. But there are many causes of depression which can be avoided and overcome. Since it is winter, I would stress sunshine and fresh air.
Open those curtains and blinds and even the windows, each day for a while, whenever it warms a bit. Lot's of fumes in the house from chemicals in the building materials and coverings.
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The extra one is just the result of kefir obeying God's injunction to "be fruitful and multiply. They tend to break off and then the broken bits grow.
The kefir will not go bad, it will just turn to cheese, as long as no alien bacteria overtakes it. That has never happened to me in 5 years of culturing kefir, except the time I mentioned earlier when I used "new improved Cascade" and the kefir turned into bright red sewage. There was no judgment call there!
The great thing about kefir is that it is a perfect illustration of "automatica" - it grows all by itself, and reproduces according to its kind.
If you can get to a Weston A Price Foundation meeting (there must be several where you are) you can get some feedback on your actual kefir. But if it is culturing, and souring, and separating, then you are doing everything right. The only issue is personal taste preference, and I expect that will take a few weeks to learn to do it "not too sweet, not too sour, but just right". The longer it cultures, the more dense the digestive flora will be.
Matthew, I have come to the place where I accept that I will probably never know, short of eternity, exactly when I heard the literal voice of God and obeyed, when I heard the voice and disobeyed, when I heard a different voice and obeyed, when I heard a different voice and discerned properly!
How often do I totally screw up, but God uses me where I ended up anyway? How often was there a real destination God had in mind, and how often is God really just working in my life where I am to make me more like Christ? I don't know.
We are sheep, being shepherded, not trick ponies going through a set of pre-ordered moves.
A flock of sheep generally moves in the right direction, following the Voice, following one another, running from perceived danger. Our destination is heaven, and I've come to believe that while there are times that God very definitely said, "Go there! Do That!", those times are few and obvious. Most of the time, I think we are "stewards, using our own judgment."
In the story of the talents, Jesus didn't scold anyone for how they used what he gave them. He only scolded them for not using their native abilities to do their best according to their own judgment.
I'd love to get a daily memo. But God, for whatever reason, provides instead:
God's word: the Lantern. It serves as an anchor and navigation chart. Holy Spirit: the Guide. He serves as a rudder and as the wind in our sails. Communitas: others to be fellow travelers going in the same general direction. We can learn from one another, but have to keep in mind that our route is going to be different for each family, each individual.
I can tell that your heart is toward being obedient to the Word, sensitive to the Spirit, and part of Communitas.
As long as you do that, God will be able to get your attention with his Rod and Staff when he REALLY wants you to do something specific.
I think if you accept what you already suspect: that God isn't constantly telling you what to do in specifics, that you will be able to get over that past mistake of being paralyzed by indecision and confusing voices.
quote:Laurie Ann said: A flock of sheep generally moves in the right direction, following the Voice, following one another, running from perceived danger. Our destination is heaven, and I've come to believe that while there are times that God very definitely said, "Go there! Do That!", those times are few and obvious. Most of the time, I think we are "stewards, using our own judgment."
In the story of the talents, Jesus didn't scold anyone for how they used what he gave them. He only scolded them for not using their native abilities to do their best according to their own judgment.
I am going to save this on my computer's hard drive! This is a gospel I can live with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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(#*'*#) Well, thank you Matthew. It is my greatest desire to make the simplicity of the gospel accessible to "the rest of us".
I was just thinking about Paul. A friend of mine talks about how the apostle had "an over-arching understanding of God's plan for humanity" most of the time, and then "specific guidance" upon occasion. He saw the basic plan as Global Conquest.
God's desire for "All nations to worship Him" was the guiding principle of Paul's life. At all times, he was driving forward to the preaching of the gospel among those who hadn't heard yet. But when he had a specific vision or direction, such as when the church at Antioch sent him on to the next city, or when he had the dream of the Macedonian, he acted on that.
That's another facet of divine guidance - how it played out in what is probably the best documented life of faith in history!
I like simple! We missed home fellowship the other day, and I got this huge email about holiness (what we missed). I wonder if the whole thing could not have been covered with, "Love The Lord, and love your neighbor." Pretty simple it seems to me.
Just as simple as, "Seek The Lord on the big decisions. Wait for conformation. Use your God given intellect to live your life as pleasing to The Lord the rest of the time."
Did I tell you I like simple?
Matthew
P.S. On a sad note, the [dysentery] seems to be overriding the kefir. Oh well, at least I had it good for about a week. I've had this problem for almost thirteen years now, so it pretty incorporated into my body. I really like the taste of the kefir milk mixed with oatmeal, so I'll keep drinking it ...just a bit of a downer though.
-------------------- Hope with abandon, all ye who enter here!
Keep going with the kefir, and as I said, let it get a bit thicker for more bacteria. Also, it may just require more time. Restoring digestive flora that's been AWOL for 13 years will take a bit of time! The initial benefit would have been the "detoxing" effect, but that is only one dimension. The kefir bacteria will be at war with the bad bacteria on an ongoing basis, as well as taking root in the intestine for itself. Let your body adjust, and then it will be time to add the fermented vegetables.
The reason for the "initial buzz" we get from new food or supplements is explained here. There is an initial big change, then an ill feeling, then a plateau, and then a slow build, if the food or supplement is really the one the body needs.
This explains the cycle you have seen in the past - it doesn't always mean the thing won't work, it may only mean it needs more time to do the full restoration.
quote:JeffL said: Matthew, hope you don't mind hearing from a guy. Sometimes I feel "lost" also. Mostly since I lost my job and am sitting home retired while my wife works. *snip* Try to get some sunshine and exercise (outdoors, preferably). *snip* You don't drink (alcohol), so that is not a factor.
Well hello jqlo... no, wait, who is this masked man!?! Well hello JeffL! I'm sorry I didn't respond to you sooner, but the "page two" thing threw me off. I actually thought we had been moved here. Then I also saw that you were addressing Laurie Ann, so I didn't read the rest of your post, thinking you two already had another topic going.
Anyway, I do love the sun. Yesterday I started repainting our swimming pool. We opened it up this spring to find it empty. The concrete around he bottom drain had denatured and had allowed the entire pool to empty. I repaired the concrete damage, and I am now in the process of repainting it. It's supposed to get up to 68 degrees here today, so I'll be outside doing what I can to get the pool up and running. We also have a second story privacy deck. I plan on a tan!
Thanks for the advice,
Matthew
-------------------- Hope with abandon, all ye who enter here!
I think that is a great way to explain what it looks like to live by the Spirit- we actively open ourselves up to God- willing to obey Him, then wait for his voice which comes through the Word, the Spirit and communitas(nice word LA ).
In contrast, this is what I think it looks like to live by the flesh-
1. We ignore God completely and do what we want, or 2. We take the issue into our own hands and try to fix it ourselves
Since Mathew is such an open book I will use him as an example. He has now found himself in a place in life where he is wondering what he should do with his time. If he lives by the flesh he could, 1. give up on God completely, or say- well I'll do the God thing on sunday, but the rest of the week I am just gunna do whatever I want, or 2. say- wow- it is clear that God wants me to do something for Him, so I will-talk to my pastor and get involved where I am needed- or if he is anantreprenurial he might say- this community needs some bible studies, I will start up a good Boble study program.
The western church is a breeding ground for these 2 attitudes which are both forms of living by the flesh. And it sounds like Mathew has gotten himself caught up in #2 in the past. Maybe what he does as he lives by the Spirit as LA defined will end up looking similar in some ways to what he did before (ie- he might start a Bible study with the guy who lives accross the street and a couple of the neighbors buddies- and he'll say- how did that happen? I started asking God to use me in whatever way He wished and don't even remember what conversation got this Bible study started, but here I am), but instead of feeling burned out and empty, he will feel filled up- with peace, joy, and all the fruits of the Spirit.
That is what I meant when I told Mathew to stop doing (ie christian living in the flesh), and just be- waiting on God- trustng that He will work in me and through me in His way and time. He just needs to stay in close connection to the Lord through the Word, the Spirit, and communitas. This is not so far off of "work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God (not ourselves- even in the form of religous works) with deep reverence and fear. For God is working in you giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him." In fact I think this describes living by the Spirit quite well.
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Good explanation, Jeanne. That is why it is so important to "judge by the fruit". Doing nothing, or our own thing can APPEAR to be waiting on God. Lots of activity can APPEAR to be "working out our salvation". But it is the results that tell us whether God is at work.
"No one can come to me unless the Father is drawing him." We can't tell who God is drawing, so we can't cooperate with him except by following his moment by moment leading, and by doing things according to the Book which says things like, "be busy at home" and "love your neighbor".
That is why I decided to "go small" at the end of our four years in Japan. The results of racing around, doing television commercials, writing curriculum, cool English programs, and wearing myself out was nil. The result of loving people in my house and focusing on loving my own family was people saying, "I want to be a Christian like you so I can have a family like yours." Men at Jeff's work, women who cooked for me and neighbors expressed that.
I did a parenting seminar where I just sat and talked for two hours about how I raise my kids, and people who knew our family actually went home and made changes. That is more than had had happened in 20 years of "leading church programs". (The video is available )
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Yes, Laurie Ann, we have seen similar results!
One couple we know who lives on our street said to us one time "you are different kind of christians"- I asked "what do you mean?" she then compared us to another couple on our street who were very involved in their church- she said "they have christian meetings at their house all the time, but in the 8 yrs we have lived next to them we have never been invited into their home- you hang out with us- and you have the kind of family that I would like to be."
A better compliment I could not have imagined! BTW- this couple has since gotten a divorce- the wife then came to the Lord (sitting at our dining room table!) and now meets with us for church in our home. This all happened naturaly, as we simply followed Gods leading to love our neighbor, and fesulted in no "burnout" to ourselves.
quote: but in the 8 yrs we have lived next to them we have never been invited into their home
I hear a cry for help! I wonder how many of our neighbors act indifferent or even standoff-ish in this regard but down inside they would really like hear about Jesus.
Yes, Jeff, it is so easy for us to miss opportunities because we try to guess who is interested, but only the Lord knows. In missions circles, it is said that most internationals who come to America NEVER get inside the home of an American family. The alienation resulting, especially for those from countries where they would never dream of ignoring a guest in their country, is very serious indeed. Some of those "best and brightest" who are sent to America go home to become national leaders - with an attitude against Americans in general, and Christians in particular.
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