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WHAT ARE THE COMMANDS OF JESUS: NEW VERSUS OLD ?
What commands we are to keep? How do we separate which laws we obey? What did Jesus say? Are all the old laws done away? Are all the 10 commandments in effect or just some? What about the laws of Moses? Are they the same as the laws of God? If all of them are done away as some preach, why bother to read the OT?
The Holy Bible rule book and everything we need to know is in there. We are to search his word daily and listen to what he says. The Holy Spirit is given to help us discern and to teach and comfort us. I can share with you some of the things that the Lord has shown me in his word. It is up to you to prove what is right and what is wrong.
Some teach that Jesus did away with all law. Is that what scripture says?
Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was the law that Jesus came to fulfill? Was it the 10 commandments?
Matthew 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Jesus explained that he expanded the commandments about murder& adultery in OT to include hate & lust in the NT. He explained the 10 commandments by saying we should not only obey them as the Pharisee did physically; but also spiritually from our hearts. Our attitudes must change, our motives must change. We must see things through his eyes and do things from his heart of love; not our own selfish motives to appear righteous to others. We must not desire to sin.
The OT sacrificial laws, rituals, feasts, priests , etc. were fulfilled by him. He is the only and final sacrifice needed. He is our high priest. In other words he replaced all these old ways to practice religion with a new way, his way, him! Thus, part of the laws given to Moses were totally done away with by Christ. Interestingly, most people still have a mediator (the preacher or priest) between them and the Lord. (doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which God hates.) Also most teach tithing and going to a special building (church, temple) which are part of the old temple rituals. We are the temple now. We are to worship in spirit and truth always and everywhere. The NT church did not build church buildings or give tithes; but helped each other as needed. They all participated in the gatherings rather than sit and listen to just one preacher.
While scripture does say we are not under law, does that mean all laws are done away, that we don't need to obey?
Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:11-16 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:20-23 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. [21] What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
Are we to still sin? If we have the new life given us by the Lord, we are dead to sin, to the desires of self, to lust, hate, rebellion and so on. We desire to be like the Lord. We have a new outlook on life. We see things through his eyes and his will, not our own. If we serve sin, we are not his. If we serve righteousness we are his. Notice those who sin die. Thus we can figure out what sin is by those things that required a death penalty. Did mixing seeds require a death penalty? No. It is not sin; but rather some of the OT laws were just good common sense on how to live and do things in the best way. Others like the one about incest, fornication, sodomy, etc. fall under the 10 as lust.
As a parent, I taught my child to love God and others, to be a moral person. I also taught him to eat his vegetables and clean his room. But all rules are not equal. I expect him to be an upright person. However, if he doesn't eat his veggies or clean his room it is not sin.
I think the laws and ordinances in the OT are the same. There are those dealing with sin, life and death issues. Others are just common sense on how to live as the farm laws & health laws. Remember when the laws were given to Moses, they had just come out of slavery to a heathen nation. They didn't know how to live on their own. God as a good parent taught them many things. He also gave them the religious laws to point them to the atonement of Christ sacrifice. They also had the 10 commandments which were written in stone. Was there a reason they were written in stone? The others were written in a book.
Later, they also had many man-made traditions thought up by the religious leaders of Christ day, most of which found ways to get around God's moral laws. We need to know the difference lest we fall.
As I recall in the OT, idolaters , murders, adulterers, children who dishonored parents , those who dishonored the Sabbath were put to death. Are these the 10 commands? I think so. They can be obeyed. The rich young man obeyed them; but he refused to give all his heart to Christ. Thus, he obeyed in the letter only. Notice Jesus said "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." He did that from his youth but still lacked something. He wouldn't follow Jesus. Had Jesus done away with the 10 commands, wouldn't he have said so here? He implied the 10 were in effect physically and now spiritually.
Matthew 19:17-20 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [20] The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21-22 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. [22] But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
We must obey from the heart. Jesus said that we must love God with all our heart, soul and mind.
Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
While the 10 commandments hinge on these two commandments, notice that technically one could obey the 10 without truly loving God (as in the rich lad's case) or neighbor (as in the case of the Pharisees. You could go to church but not love God. You could not commit murder ; but still hate your neighbor, thus not love him.
Paul pointed out that our flesh still wars with the spirit. He wanted to do good; but didn't always do so. He slipped up. (Wouldn't this be called backsliding?) It was not a willful sin because he didn't desire to do wickness. He was still in the race. He wanted to do what was right. His heart desired to obey; but his flesh was sometimes weak. (Don't we all do or say things that we did without thinking & later regret?) The rich lad had made an idol and god of his wealth, he refused salvation. He willfully chose not to give his heart to Christ. It was no accident or slip of the flesh. It was pure carnal fleshly selfish desire. He loved money more than God; thus, he kept the commandments and worshipped in vain (Did he even really keep the command to love only God? NO. But he looked like he kept them as he did the physical things necessary to show he was religious and righteous. He went to temple every Sabbath. His heart was not right though.)
Some say we are not to obey God' commandments because we aren't under the law. That is not what it means. We are no longer under the death penalty that we deserve because Christ paid it for us. If we willfully sin, there is no more sacrifice.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Notice they received the knowledge of the truth but rejected it. Thus, there is no OSAS is there?
How do we obey Christ? What are we to do? If we say we don't have to do anything because we are under grace not law, we better think again. While we can't do anything to save ourselves just like the rich young man wasn't saved by doing the commands, if we give our hearts to the Lord we will obey him.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Cor. 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1 Tim. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
LOOK! We are to fight the good fight of faith! Flee evil things and follow righteousness!
1 Tim. 6:11-12 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. [12] Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 John 2:7-8 [b]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. [8] Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1 John 3:22-24 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. [23] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. [24] And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2 John 1:4-6 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
According to these verses it is very important that we do obey the Lord so that we may enter into the city, the kingdom, eternal life!
Some say that the only things Christ commanded the gentiles to do were those mentioned in Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
When we examine these things, we find that it is dealing with idolatry. Even today those in the occult drink blood and commit fornication in religious ceremonies. I'm not sure how the things strangled fit; but my guess is they are also religious in nature.
What does the NT say keeps one from entering the kingdom? It is those who are unrighteous who shall not enter?
1 Cor. 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, [22] Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: [23] All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Romans 1:29-32 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
1 Cor. 5:10-11 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. [11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. Romans 2:8; Romans 13:13; 1 Cor. 10:14; 2 Cor. 12:20
LOOK!!!!! Those who continue in sin will not enter in the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephes. 5:3-7 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; [4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. [5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. [6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. [7] Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
We were guilty of these sins; but now he has saved us, washed us, and filled us with the Holy Ghost. We are justified by his grace; but we are not to continue in these sins.
Titus 3:3-7 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. [4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, [5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; [6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; [7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
James 3:14; James 3:16; James 4:4 ; 1 Peter 4:3; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 2:9; 1 John 3:15; Rev. 21:8; Rev. 22:15
It is plain to see that the lusts of the world fall under the category of the 10 commandments. If we do any of the above sins, we either do not love God or man or both; nor will we make it into the kingdom. We are admonished to take heed lest we fall. Neither can we brag about how righteous we are like the Pharisee in Luke 18 lest we sin against God by rejecting our Lord as Saviour and the one who cleans us and fills us so we can walk with him.
All 10 Commandments are found in Exodus 20:3-17 in the OT. All 10 commandments are also found specifically in the NT
#1 Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
#2
1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
#3
1 Tim. 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
#4
Mark 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: [28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
#5
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
#6,#7,#8,#9 & #10
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
BTW I think the 10 commandments were in effect from the start. Jesus says he writes no new commandment but the old from the beginning. God told the Israelites to remember the Sabbath, thus it was something already given that they had forgotten.
1 John 2:7-8 [b]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
God rested on the 7th day of creation starting the pattern of the sabbath. Adam and Eve went after another god (idolatry and lust) for their own selfish desires to be as God. Cain tried to worship his way, not God's way. Then he murdered his brother from envy. Were they not guilty of breaking part of the 10 commandments?
Would not the fruit of the Spirit obey the commands?
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
We are to walk as children of the light in truth!
Ephes. 5:8-11 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: [9] (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth [10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. [11] And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Did Jesus do away with anything? Well, he didn't do away with law; but he blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us and nailed it to his cross. Col. 2:14 What does that mean? He took the penalty for us. He paid the price so we can live eternally in the kingdom. He fulfilled the sacrifice. He fulfilled the old priesthood. He built a new temple. All the old way of doing religious rituals is gone ( meats, drinks, divers washings & carnal ordinances) nailed to the cross.
Hebrews 9:8-12 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; [10] Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. [11] But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; [12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
How do we obey Christ? He said go and sin no more.
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Jesus said to love God and man. The first four commandments tell us how to love God, the last six tell us how to love man. These are just out lines as they don't cover every possible situation. They are principals which must be written into our hearts that we may discern what is right and what is not.
We need to take the lists of people who will not get into the kingdom seriously. We must repent and stop doing those things. (listed above.) If we have a besetting sin, a habitual sin that we are prone to, we should pray for our Father to keep us from temptation. Sometimes that means staying away from certain situations that would put us in front of such a sin. A drunkard should not go to places where drinks are served if they can't control that desire. A gossip should avoid other gossips. A person with sexual lust should avoid people and places that would arouse that desire. However, we can't avoid all situations all the time. As we grow nearer to the Lord, as we look at things as he does, he removes those desires. As we become stronger, we don't always have to avoid everything; but we learn to resist as our attitudes become more Christ like.
Some would say that in order to keep the commands you must worship on Saturday. Scripture points out clearly that Saturday was set aside by God and sanctified as a holy day of rest. He rested after creation. He told the Israelites to remember the Sabbath in the OT. In the NT Jesus observed the Sabbath, Paul and others also taught in the churches on Sabbath. However, Jesus also rebuked the Pharisees for making all kinds of harsh rules on just how to observe it. I see both Sun. and Sat. worshipers doing this today! Jesus did good on the Sabbath. He also worked on the Sabbath if it was necessary to feed himself and his family of disciples. (Picked corn) He said the day was made for us! However we choose to use it, it is still thte Sabbath and santified by God. We can't make it holy any more than we can make ourselves holy. God cleans us, purifies us, santifies us and makes us holy. We can however, choose to defile ourselves, rejecting God and tarnishing our garments so that we are no longer worthy
When Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman at the well, he told her that the time had come when people would not go to a specific mountain or city to worship. He said we must worship him in spirit and in truth. Are there commands to worship on a certain day, in a certain place, at a certain time, in an certain way? I don't see them. Worship is not a physical thing; but comes from the heart.
John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
What is pure religion, pure worship? Is it not believing Lord, loving him, following him every day in every place? Is it not a kind and loving attitude to all men, even our enemies? Are the ritualistic rules of "church" really worship? Are they pleasing to God? Once you study the issue, I think you will see that some of those certain things called worship are not pleasing to God but are man made doctrines. Others are obsolete training toolsand shadows that God used in the old covenant; but now has replace with the new. Pure religion is to visit the widows and orphans! In other words to love those who need to be loved.
The whole word of God is good for doctrine and reproof. We are told to work out our own salvation. We are to be Bereans reading and studying the word daily to prove what is good and acceptable to God. We are to be doers of the word as well as hearers.
The 10 commandments are an outline of principles. There is no rule for every possible situation. Just as I taught my child right from wrong, I can't possibly know every situation he will face and give him a rule to memorize. He has the principles written in his heart and he must work out his own salvation accordingly. When he was little I had many rules. I taught him to never cross the road without holding an adult’s hand. Then, as he grew, I taught him to look both ways before crossing. Then I allowed him to cross without an adult present. That is how I understand many of the OT laws. Some of those are no longer needed and done away with. Others, the 10 commandments, are still good principles and are in effect. Jesus added spiritual requirements to those 10 to cover your whole attitude toward God and men
1 Thes. 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
posted
I guess another way to look at the old and new is to ask yourself a question. Was it a sin to steal before the cross? What about lie? What about after the cross? Is it still sin to lie and steal? Yes, these are still sin as are the other Ten Commandments written by the finger of God and placed inside the ark of the testament.
Now try this one. Was it a sin to not offer a sacrifice for sin before the cross? What about after the cross? Is it sin today to not bring our lamb or other sacrificial offering? No, the ordinances such as these, were "nailed" to the cross. As where the feast days, the sabbath days, the earthly priesthood, and such things as were mentioned in the hand written ordinances of Moses which were placed in the side of the ark of the testament for a witness against us. These contained curses for disobedience. BTW, the Ten Commandments did not contain any curses for disobedience.
Jesus died for our sins. But what is our sacrifice today? We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice. What does that mean?
quote:Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Some of the sacrifices we must make is to give up pride of life, lust of the eyes and flesh. It is better to go through life "maimed" that to be cast into hell.
The ordinances written by Moses contained blessings and curses. The Ten Commandments had no curses but the 5th had a promise. The ordinances were written by Moses' hand and place outside the ark of the testament. The Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God and were placed inside the ark of the testament, under the mercy seat.
During Moses' time, if someone broke an ordinance, such as gathering sticks on the sabbath day, they were stoned to death. Today, we are not under that law but we are under grace. That law, the ordinances written by the hand of Moses which was a witness against us, was "nailed" to the cross. "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." On the other hand, the Ten Commandments were not against us nor contrary to us but were for our benefit and life. They were not nailed to the cross. They were not handwritten but were written by the finger of God in tablets of stone to show their perpetuity. Thus, there were two distinct laws.
posted
I agree there are different sets of laws. I do believe the 10 were written in stone because they were the most important and continue today. However, there was a punishment for breaking the 10 including the spriitual principals. The 10 explain sin, the sin that keeps one out of the kingdom. The wage of sin is death.
Romans 6:23 (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Thus, the 10 have no curse but they do have a punishment. Jesus paid that price for us that we might have eternal life.
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
posted
Faith, I've loved reading your posts, but I have to disagree on this point.
Gal 3:10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
It says everything. Not some. Not just the 10 commandments, everything. The Law of Moses is a complete system. Jesus did not do away with some of it as you said. Jesus *fulfilled* it. If it were as you said then God would have made Jesus a Levite. That's the only way He could have fulfilled just the sacrificial portions. But God never intended that. Jesus came from the tribe of Judah. Jesus fulfilled it by being the promised Messiah. He is the Christ.
Now the point that may be confusing is that there are intersections between the New Covenant and the Old. We don't murder but not because it's commanded in the Old Covenant. We don't murder because we follow the New Covenant law of love. There is no sin out there that we can do if we follow that law perfectly.
Jesus said- John 13:34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
The Law of Moses was designed to point out our need for a savior. It serves only as a shadow of the reality which is Christ. You mentioned the Sabbath... Check this out:
Heb 4:7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."[d] 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
So God is interested in "today" not the seventh-day. We can rest from striving to be perfect. Christ has finished the work. There is nothing left for us to do. There is nothing we can do to add to it or subtract. "It is finished."
We need to exercise caution when we declare that "it is finished". This is true when it comes to the gift to our spirit and to our heart, as it is stated in the prophecy used twice in Hebrew: "...I will put my laws into the heart and into their spirit" says the Lord...
The caution comes in regards to our soul and to our body. This is when and where comes in the daily grind of denying myself, to pick up the cross daily and to follow Jesus and the devotion to ceasseless prayer and service. This will be finished when we each die or when Jesus returns.
So when Jesus says "it is finished", that is His part is finished, not ours. We all still have "the cup to drink" and the new man to put after putting off the old man.
The great blessing is that Jesus did climb Calvary first, having been made to be curse for us, whereas for us, once we are given eternal life in our heart and spirit, we get to come down from Calvary, equipped with the cross to conquer our soul and body. "The spirit will render life to our mortal bodies" Paul says.
Because once eternal life is into our heart and spirit, we are then eqiupped to apply the discipline of the cross so that the obediance of Christ gets to reach our soul and body. We are to put off the old man and to put on new, Paul says.
These disciplines are what empowers us to become full of grace and truth and "to drink our cup"; the cup being the tribulations of the flesh of the world and from Satan that we must put up with within and without while on earth. That is when we follow Jesus and climb calvary, each drinking the cup as God ordains it to be custom fit.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
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I like this overview which is being used by frontier missionaries in trying to teach pre-Christian and/or pre-literate believers how to follow Jesus. It applies equally to my own walk as to a new converts':
The Seven Commands of Christ 1) Repent, believe, and receive the Holy Spirit (conversion, regeneration), Mark 1:15; John 3:16; 20:22 2) Be baptized and live the new life it initiates, initiating ongoing transformation, Matthew 28:18-20; Romans 6:1-14 3) Love God, neighbour, fellow disciples, the needy in a practical way and enemies (forgive), Matthew 22:36-40; John 13:34-35, Luke 10:25-37; Matthew 5:43-48 4) Break bread (Communion, related to all that we do to worship), Matthew 26:26-28; John 4:24 5) Pray (private and family devotions, intercession and spiritual warfare), John 16:24 6) Give (stewardship of our time, treasure and talents), Luke 6:38 7) Make disciples (witness for Christ, shepherd, apply the Word, train leaders, send missionaries), Matthew 28:18-20
Jesus was trying to make it simple. All the 10 commandments fall under the one command: LOVE! Love God as he deserves (including making TIME for him), and love your neighbor as you want to be loved: since nobody likes to be lied to, cheated on, stolen from, or disrespected - don't!
As a friend often says, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is enough command to keep you busy all day long!
Blessings, Laurie Ann
-------------------- Posing as an Ordinary Housewife :)
The first stuff reminds me of something I read recently that typically we are humans doing rather than human beings. This was said in the context of our continual doings rather than our continual being in Christ. Not that the list is particularly bad did I mention this, but rather that often we become involved in doing to the neglect of surrendering. I mean, we can't do Christ's work until we are willingly obedient to Christ. This work begins in our own hearts and not in the mission field. Agreed?
So I guess the most important commandment of Christ's for me is "To love the Lord with all thy heart." The other "Don't" and "Do" commandments are a revelation of our degree of devotion to Christ, are they not?
So if we teach people to love Christ by revealing to them His true character and purpose then the other things follow along as a natural course of events, do they not? It is, after all, the goodness of God that leads us to repentance and not the mere fact that someone tells us to do it as a needful requirement. What do you think?
I'm reminded of one beautiful video I watched which is available from New Tribes Mission -- http://www.ntm.org. It's called "The Taliabo Story" and is available at closeout pricing of just $3.50 (VHS) or $16.96 (DVD) at http://www.ntmbooks.com/index.jsp?categoryid=5 . Well worth the watch.
Yes, obedience is the key - as well as a Spirit led life.
I like the "7 commands" because they encompass the answer to the question, "what do I DO? After all, James said, "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." The tendency to separate being from doing is, I believe, a false dichotomy - perhaps from the Greek as opposed to the Hebrew mindset.
Of course, here we are assuming that a person has a desire to love and obey the Lord. Jesus gives a picture of what it looks like - a starting point-- by telling us what to do. There was very little theology in his teaching, and a lot of emphasis on action.
I have a friend who once went through the New Testament looking for every command or requirement so she could write them down, and learn them and obey them -- she said she ended up nearly copying the entire book! She found that distilling it down to a list like this would be most helpful!
Blessings, Laurie Ann
-------------------- Posing as an Ordinary Housewife :)
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LA wrote, "The tendency to separate being from doing is, I believe, a false dichotomy - perhaps from the Greek as opposed to the Hebrew mindset."
Agreed! And so it was in the early church, apparently, as hinted to by the writings of James.
There is a need for doing but I wonder how someone can be in Christ and not have the "doing." Hummm, perhaps the point that James was making was not that we should be doing to prove our faith to others but more that if we profess faith in Christ but have no corresponding works then perhaps our profession is merely that--a profession rather than a true abiding. What say you?
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Oh wow, I'm so glad you all brought up the doing vs being thing again. I saw that in another thread that ended sadly...
My dad and I used to have a bit of a personality clash. He one day mentioned that he realized that I was a "be"er while he was a "do"er. What I do is a natural consequence of who I am, while my dad identifies himself with what he does. Neither one is right or wrong, just different personalities.
I started a little study on every occurrence of the word "church" in the New Testament so that I could show that "be the church" is as legitimate as "do church". Probably isn't really necessary now...
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It is quite clear what the commands of Christ are. Most of them can be found in Matthew 5, 6, and 7. Our problem is not lack of knowledge as to what the commands of Christ are. Our problem is not putting them into practice. Sad to say, some think it is not necessary to put them into practice, relegating them to the category of "works" or placing them in another "dispensation". Indeed, C.I. Scofield in a note in "the Scofield Bible" which he annotated, that it is "neither the duty nor privilege" of the Christian to obey Christ's commands in the "Sermon on the Mount."
Jesus, on the other hand, after giving His commands to His disciples ended the "Sermon" with these words:
Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock;and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it." Matthew 7: 24-27
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Perhaps where we get into difficulties is when we don't clearly define our context. It could be that one person tries to do all that Christ commands as a means of earning salvation. And, it could be that another person "tries" to do all that Christ commands as a way of showing they love Jesus.
Scripture clearly describes the first type in Matthew 7 as those who proclaim, "Haven't we cast out demons? And in thy name done wondeful works?" But sadly, Christ says to them, "Depart from me you lawless ones. I never knew you."
So key to this is whether or not the person "doing" those wonderful works in Christ's name is also obedient to God's law or is a transgressor of God's law. We find in Romans 8 that "the carnal mind is enmity against God; and is not subject to His law, neither can be" subject to God's law. It is impossible for a person who has not been born again to keep God's law. Sinful nature is opposed to God's law. If we are going to be keepers of God's law, or commandments, we must first be born again. Yet, can a person be born of the spirit if they have not died to the flesh?
Many Christian's today don't consider the Ten Commandments as part of God's law. I guess because it contains the Sabbath commandment and was given on Mt. Sinai they feel it was only for the Jews. But if you look at it carefully and study its true purpose you will find that God gave it to all mankind as a means of exposing their sin which in turn--and in light of the death sentence pronounced on transgressor--should cause their hearts to turn to Jesus as their Savior. Do you consider the Ten Commandments as Christ's commandments? Many people will not mention them when they talk of Christ's commandments. Yet, are any of them missing from the NT?
quote:Do you consider the Ten Commandments as Christ's commandments?
No. I'd be one of those that doesn't. Ten Commandments are without a doubt part of the Law of Moses.
Hmm... Let me put it this way. The Ten Commandments only restrict outside actions. When Jesus taught his disciples in Matthew 5-7 he was saying that wasn't enough. God was interested in people's hearts.
"You have heard what was said long ago...but I tell you..."
Now I believe we all agree that all the law is summed up in love and *that* is the commandment of Jesus, as I've stated. So what is it we're debating? The Sabbath? I've stated that God is interested in "today", so everyday is a Sabbath. Hmm I wonder if this is what we have going on:
quote:Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
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I recently heard some guy named John Piper (desiringgod.org) say that Jesus spoke no less than 500 commands or imperatives, far more than in the discourse on the mount recorded in Matt 5f. I've not counted them but I am certain that love fulfills them all.
But don't we find every one of the TEN given again in the NT? Didn't Jesus consider them important as well?
quote: Matthew 19 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The young man said, "All these I have kept." How would you have answered Jesus?
And the young man J Sapp answered Jesus, "No. I'd be one of those that doesn't [keep them]. Ten Commandments are without a doubt part of the Law of Moses."
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Well, yes. We are all sinners so Jesus came to call every man. We are sinners because we have transgressed the commandments of God. But hopefully that was when we were carnally minded and at enmity against God and not subject to His law. (Romans 8:7)
A sinner is after all one who breaks God's law. "Sin is the transgression of the law." (1John3:4). But do you want to remain a sinner?
quote: 1 John 3 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
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Jeff says: "We are sinners because we have transgressed the commandments of God"
But the fact is that I sin because I am born with the nature of sin. Transgression comes as a result of that nature. I do not grow into becoming a sinner after transgressing God's commands; I sin because I am a sinner. Praise God for coming to reconcile us to Him with the power to be transformed from sinner to saint.
This reminds me of one of Watchman Nee's key teachings. He points to the fact that the defeat of a child of God to sin comes because he/she tries to overcome with the will power, which has no effect against the nature of sin. Only the law of the spirit of life in Christ-Jesus sets us free from the law of sin and of death. This speaks of the disciplines of carrying the cross and to be transformed by the renewal of our minds, so that we may feed on every word that from God's mouth and discern His will, that which is perfect and agreeable.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
Thanks for your input. Yes, I agree that people sin because of their sinful nature. The existence of the law does not cause people to sin. Neither does temptation which merely reveals the sin that already exists in our nature. But it is the law, after all, that exposes sin and scripture defines sin as the transgression of God's law. The law helps us understand the exceeding sinfulness of our nature and why it must be put to death--either now by the spirit of Christ or physically at Christ's return.
1Co 15:56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
As you say, the law of Moses was a teacher or pedagogue as some versions put it. It was given strickly to show humans the impossibility of manufacturing eternal life out of the nature of Adam. One part that the Lord has been graciously teaching me over His 33 years in my life, is the lesson to work out my salvation in fear and trembling. I still go on avoiding such discomfort in Adam instead of remaining alert, sober and praying ceaselesslly. As a result, I am yet to settle in the maturity of the full measure I am given to serve the Lord and the Church with.
"Thank you Lord for Your determination to bring us all home according to Your good pleasure. Please, do allow for the obediance of Jesus to make its way from where You have deposited Your gift in my heart and in my spirit, and do complete the passage of eternal life to my soul and to my body by the one faith and One Spirit of Your's. I ask in the name of Jesus-Christ...amen to Your yes in us all..."
Ps: By March 31, 07 we are going to be homeless, 4 of us, unless the door opens for us somewhere, somehow. Could anyone who read this and feels compeled to pray, to do so, please? Thank you.
-------------------- ...all blessings be with us all... Benoit Couture
quote:It could be that one person tries to do all that Christ commands as a means of earning salvation. And, it could be that another person "tries" to do all that Christ commands as a way of showing they love Jesus.
Tell me honestly. Have you ever met anyone ----- even one person ---- who "tries to do all that Christ commands as a means of earning salvation"? I think this idea is a strawman constructed by antinomianists. Besides, Christ provided salvation from what? Hell? Or sins? The angel announced to Joseph that he should call the child "Jesus" (Saviour) for He shall save His people from their sins. The writer of Hebrews wrote that Christ came to "do away with sin", and every NT passage which gives the reason for Christ's death indicates a deliverance from wrongdoing. Paul wrote that He died in order that we might no longer live for ourselves, but for His sake." Peter wrote that He endured our sins on the tree that we might die to sin and live to righteousness.
God isn't interested in making people positionally righteous, but rather actually righteous. I know most of us have heard preachers say that because of what Jesus did for us, God, when He looks at us, does not see our sin but Christ's righteousness. This is a grave error. If we continue in sin, God sees every detail, and His desire is to deliver us from it through Christ.
We cannot divorce our life style from our salvation. Salvation from sin is a process that continues throughout our lives as we are being conformed to the image of His Son. The process will be finally completed when Christ comes again and puts the finishing touches on those who will share in the first resurrection.
Paul made it very clear who would have eternal life and who would receive wrath and fury. He wrote in Romans 2:
For He will render to everyone according to his works.
To those who by perseverance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,He will give eternal life, but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth,but are persuaded by unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil, but glory and honour and well-being for every one who does good... for God shows no partiality. Romans 2:6-10
I appreciate what you wrote. There is much power in our Savior to save us to the uttermost. That is our assurance and it is good to enunciate it over and over again for it is the truth.
Yet, I still have to answer your question in the affirmative. Even to say that the vast majority of professing Christians are indeed trying to earn their salvation--however impossible, unnecessary, and ridiculous that may be. Every false religion is based on human works as a means of attaining the prize. And we know for a fact that there are innumerable forms of false religion while there is only one true religion. Another fact is that many are called but few are chosen. And, the path to destruction is wide but the path to life is narrow and difficult--and few find it.
So, yes, I know so many more that are "earning" salvation than are depending upon Christ's righteousness for their assurance. This strikes at the very heart of our self-centered, egotistical, prideful, sinful natures. A partial surrender, after all, is no better than no surrender--because Christ will not co-reign with Satan on the throne of our heart.
But because there is just one thing we cherish and will not surrender, our Christian walk becomes anything but an abiding in Christ. We become self-reliant and self-assured. As said of the Laodicean, "Thou sayest, 'I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing.'" These Christians, while not depending upon Christ for their righteousness, are walking a path that they have proscribed for themselves. This is what I call "earning" their own salvation. "There is a way that seemeth right...but the end is destruction."
Do you believe that the inspired word err'ed in the message to the Laodiceans? Or, how do you explain it?
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