posted
Hey readers on this beautiful day of the Lord,
A person asked the question the other day that to my knowledge had never been raised before on our hc list.
Think of it. We have had literally hundreds of posts concerning the identity and role of elders - but not deacons.
It is the very same word in the original as what Jesus said -everyone- must be to be "great in his kingdom." The requirements for deacon in the letters to Timothy are imperatives that could possibly directed to _all_ servants or ALL BELIEVERS, imho. What?
The part about "let their wives be..." can be safely, even preferably, translated I am told, as: let the women be..." Now, doesn't that put everything in a different perspective?
Surely, you will agree that Paul often jumped from one subject to another - sometimes in mid-sentence. Could this section just be general exhortations for the young and old (elders) instead of one exclusively on church government? Many fine scholars say so.
OK, here's one for you. Why would Paul cite all these "qualifications for an office of deacon" then turn right around and advise Timothy that if he but the brethren in remembrance of these things he would be a minister - rather deacon himself??? Interesting, huh?
1 Tim. 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good *minister* of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
BTW, the word 'office was' "inserted" in 1 Tim to clarify things and is actually not underneath there in the Greek.
Deacons also apply to Satanic agents, civil rulers, and to ..... Jesus Christ. A very general kind of a term in its meanings for certain.
What's your take, fellow servants? Are you a minister? Are you a deacon? An ordained deacon? I think so... in a sense. Still, I see the deacon of the pastorals as something more specialized. Particularly, a representative of the church.
David Anderson
Zion Child
posted
Hi church,
I have been looking in to this matter myself about elders,deacons and bishops. Here is what I have found in a scripture dictionary:
Deacon-(diakonos) one who executes the commands of another; attendant; minister. - ZC
posted
Ok, here's a tough one. Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples [unto them], and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and 'serve' tables.
The word 'serve' used here is diakoneo which is the word we see as 'deacon' [Strong's 1247]
I know that they said that they were in prayer and reading the scriptures, but I will be frank with you I disagree with their 'position' in this matter. To me they were setting themselves up above the people. Paul never did this. And remember how Paul 'called' Peter on His hypocrisy about not eating with the Gentile believers when the 'Jews' showed up from Jerusalem?
(Of course it has always been my belief that the scriptures do give you all the truth about the characters portrayed, warts and all so to speak.)
So chew on this one... if Jesus was willing to wash their feet why weren't these guys willing to wait on some grecian widows?
I think that this passage in Acts is fodder for all the 'I want to get paid to Minister' crowd. Who want to just pray and read the bible while the 'deacons' serve the audience, oops, I mean church. Sorry, my contempt for the Christian 'caste' system is showing.
posted
The issue and offices of Deacons, Elders, Pastors, Lead Elders, Chief Elders, Senior Pastors, Board Presidents, etc. etc. has dogged and drained the Bride of Christ, His Church, since prior to Jesus' ascension into heaven.
Jesus' own sinful Disciples were debating and maneuvering on who would have greater stature in heaven. That was when Jesus chastized them and pointed out true leaders need to be true servants. Here was Jesus, who was and is equal to God, humbling himself to come to earth, be born into a poor homeless family, and to die for us undeserving sinners, even death by one of the most humiliting horrible means, stripped and hung on a cross. How is it that we have our grand ideas of flowing gowns and grand crowns and honor for the sinful man in the pulpit, who was just as guilty for Christ's death as the rest of us? This was a carryover from Roman paeganism.
Since that time, sinful mankind has constantly debated, scratched and clawed over who is in charge, who gets to determine what color the communion wine should be, who's in the inner circle of power and who is not, who gets to teach, who gets fired etc. etc.
I have lived through the pain of more than four church splits over the past 20 years, and in each and every case it boiled down to human (Pastor) worship, lack of proper submission and battles for power and influence within the body.
The Bible says we are to be submitted "one to another". The people at "the top" should not be thought of or be placed at "the top". They are to be submitted to every believer in the Body of Christ, unto Christ. The Bible is our ultimate rule of faith and doctrine, not sermons, creeds, books, tapes, bulletin board messages, etc.! The elders of the church are to be equal in authority, and their primary function is to guard the body against false teachers. Everything taught in any church needs to be weighed against what the Bible says, not what some other book or person says.
We have perverted the office of Deacon and Elder. They are to be servants first and foremost, as each of us should be. They are to be our teachers, but not our schoolmasters. Christ is head of the church, not any other man or woman. Sinful mankind has always sought a human leader, as if God were himself insufficient. While we are to submit to those on Earth placed over us, we should not place them on a pedistal and presume they are infallible. That would be idolatry, an abomination to God.
First and foremost, we should love one another. I have learned more about God from my wife than any man from the pulpit, because I know she loves me.
The system of Elders and Deacons is in the Bible, and so appears to be a good system for church government. There could be some debate as to whether or not it was more appropriate for the early church, when there were thousands of new baby Christians entering the church every week, and many of them had baggage of former pagean religions. Did Christ himself command the Disciples to elect elders, or rather to go unto all the world, making Disciples of Christ, baptizing them and teaching them to obey all that Jesus had commanded?
We need to get off the debate of who should be in charge. Christ is head of the church, period. We can benefit from having some scripturally grounded and knowledgable men to make sure what is being taught is scripturally correct. But Christ is the head of the church.
David Anderson
posted
Hi brother,
You said:
Everything taught in any church needs to be weighed against what the Bible says, not what some other book or person says.
Good, that's some real common ground to work from. Besides that, you made too many excellent points to comment upon! Thanks for dropping by.
We need to get off the debate of who should be in charge. Christ is head of the church, period. We can benefit from having some scripturally grounded and knowledgeable men to make sure what is being taught is scripturally correct. But Christ is the head of the church.
I hope to live to see the whole matter removed from discussion which will not likely occur without debate.
Elders of the unofficial sort can and should oversee things without being "in charge." This can occur without losing sight of the fact the He alone is Lord. No saint I have ever encountered has denied the headship of Christ. But it is the Head himself who gave his church prophets, apostles, pastor-teachers. Ephesians 4:11.
He did not give officers called elders or deacons because elders - older ones - were already present. Deacon is just another word for servant, a completely non-technical word. Servanthood is the business of every saint without exception. I realize these statements raise a few questions...
Thanks for your comments. I am learning much reading many of the posts you and others have placed on this website.
I still believe it is wise to seek counsel from other Christian men in your fellowship on issues impacting you and your family. I also believe it is a good idea for any Christian assembly to at least informally identify which men within their fellowship meet the requirements for eldership/deaconship. Absent this, you could have the assembly being counseled on the interpretation of scripture by an unlearned baby Christian, or counseled on loving/raising a family by someone whose personal/family life is in shambles, or have no controls in place to prevent false teachings.
I am not sure we can successfully convey to brothers in the Institutional Church (and in the house churches) the paradigm shift (backwards) to the way Christ (I believe) intended his church to be run. (The husband the head of the wife/family unit, Christ the head of the church) We need to at least try, but the concept of having men 'in charge' over the church is so ingrained in Christians today.
Regarding deacons, is it really correct for churches today to elect a select few men as deacons (or for that matter bishop/elders)? The Bible says Jesus is the Bishop (overseer) of our souls. Paul also instructs in Titus 1 regarding choosing elders/bishops that if ANY man in the local church is blameless, the husband of one wife, children in order etc. etc.
This implies to me that ANY and ALL men that consistantly meet the clear requirements set forth in the scriptures for being a deacon/elder, should be responsible for serving as deacon/elders (emphasis on serving) They should maintain the responsibility for as long as they meet those requirements, and agree to step aside if they cease to meet the requirements.
One big sticking point on 'choosing' elders is the requirement for them to hold fast to sound doctrine, the "faithful word as they have been taught". Our "faithful word" is and should always be, the Bible. Too many Christians today cling to manmade misinterpretations and additions to the Bible (written centuries after the Bible) as their 'sound' doctrine. As a result, we have the denominational (or demon-inational)divisions in the Church today.
I agree with your point that we are ALL called to be servants, and to help and counsel (exhort) one another to good deeds. Not everyone has the gift of teaching or evangelizing, but we all have clear commands from the head of our head, Christ, to exhort and love one another.
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