quote:Galatians 4:9-11: But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
I didn't notice where this passage had been considered yet. Does it have any bearing on the Sabbath/Sunday question? If not, it may come close, imo. Could not those who argued then for the continuation of these observances, have insisted that they were drawn to God by them and that they were STILL beneficial and good for everyone???
Btw, I am satisfied that this subject has now been discussed to the degree in which it has been. In the future it will not be necessary to go over it again unless fresh data is introduced. Btw again, we went from a mail list to a web forum because the forum serves as a searchable reference and storage facility for times just like this.
Congratulations to those who participated and didn't lose their cool. Granted, it is a knotty question for most of us. Myself not excluded.
If anyone learns anything, let's give the glory all to King Jesus!
This verse ties in very closely with Col 2:16. If we could understand the issue that Paul is fighting against with his argument then we could better understand what lesson he is trying to impress upon his hearers. Of course, at the very heart of what he is fighting is substitution of the shadow for the real. His goal was to set the affections, hopes, and faith of his hearers upon Jesus, the crucified Savior of the world, and to show the worthlessness of anything man could do to save himself apart from Jesus.
I, for one, would love to continue.
It is pretty apparent from reading Galations that Paul is fighting against circumcision. I wouldn't think it would be a big issue today. Many males are circumcised about the 8th day for health reasons. But this doesn't mean they are legalists indebted to do the whole law apart from Christ. But in Paul's day this was a huge issue because it warred against Christ and his cross. I think Paul recognized that circumcision was nothing but also that uncircumcision was nothing as well. What he did count as worthwhile was a faith that works by love, and the keeping of the commandments of God.
Even those who expressed faith and belief in Christ were being told they still needed to be circumcised. You can see how this would war against the cross of Christ as the only means of salvation. It suggested that the cross was not sufficient and ineffective. No wonder Paul fought so hard against this subtle enemy.
In Martin Luther's day he fought the issue as Paul. Not circumcision, but self-righteousness. It was taught that in order to obtain righteousness a person had to do penance (atone) for their sins by reciting prescribed chants a number of times, or by crawling up stairs on ones knees while reciting the Rosary, or something else intended for purification. And, if not full purified in this lifetime a period sufficient for atonement must be spent in purgatory, a transitional state, before entering heaven.
The message that God gave Martin Luther was "Righteousness by Faith", "Justification by Faith." Luther's main thrust was to overthrow any notion that a man could attain to the righteousness of God by self-prescribed penance or anything else of that nature. His teaching clearly directed the hearers' to faith in Jesus as the only means of obtaining the righteousness of God. The truth does set us free from vain works--anything man may attempt to save himself apart from God.
I would think that we should come to some common understanding as to what the various phrases Paul uses mean to us today.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,
how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye
desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
posted
I am very much enjoying this discussion. I also appreciate the godly attitudes. There are some articles here: http://www.ids.org/reading_room/index.html that have helped me understand new testament theology better. And I'm too lazy to add my 2 cents:-)
posted
Perhaps what Paul, Martin Luther, and all of us fight is the worldly system of power and subordination. Christ's system is upside down and not of this world. Christ frees us, but bondage let's us know what we need to do. Be free! Love God! Love your brother. Not so easy. Strong, forceful, and worldly leaders always take advantage of such a deficit (people's desire to know what they need to do) and exploit it. Christ-like men free us from it. The new testament, through-out, teaches a very different message to the Jews and gentiles of the day than they always knew...folks just weren't getting it. We still aren't today.
posted
Perhaps our problem is pride. We resist humility. But what Lucifer set in motion by pride, Jesus overthrew by humility and self abasement.
Compare these two passages:
Lucifer Isaiah 14 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Christ Philippians 2 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
The one who is prideful is abased. The one who is humble is exalted.
posted
I recently read a very interesting book entitled, "Listening to the Language of the Bible." It discusses many unclear phrases by going back to the original Hebrew and the context it was understood in.
Binding and Loosing, I learned, to my surprise, have to do with the ability of a leader to make decisions about what is to be permitted and what is to be disallowed. As the scripture often gives general guidelines, and not specific teaching on various issues - the rabbi, or leader, would be given this authority. So Yeshua was telling his disciples that they were able, like the learned rabbis, to make decisions. We see they did this, such as decisions about feeding the needy, requirements for gentile converts, etc.
posted
Recently I have been meeting with a 7th Day Adventist family. I have purposely tried not to make Sabbath keeping an issue. If we really come to a place where we are walking in the Spirit, 24-7 than Sabbath keeping becomes a none issue. The more we enter His rest, the more we will find that "the righteousness of the law" will be fulfilled in us.
Since fellowshiping with this group I have come across some interesting issues about some of the teachings in the Adventist church. You can find out more at http://formeradventist.com Greg Taylor, a former Adventist minister has written a thought-provoking letter that is posted on the site.
quote:Originally posted by D Anderson:
quote:Galatians 4:9-11: But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
I didn't notice where this passage had been considered yet. Does it have any bearing on the Sabbath/Sunday question? If not, it may come close, imo. Could not those who argued then for the continuation of these observances, have insisted that they were drawn to God by them and that they were STILL beneficial and good for everyone???
Btw, I am satisfied that this subject has now been discussed to the degree in which it has been. In the future it will not be necessary to go over it again unless fresh data is introduced. Btw again, we went from a mail list to a web forum because the forum serves as a searchable reference and storage facility for times just like this.
Congratulations to those who participated and didn't lose their cool. Granted, it is a knotty question for most of us. Myself not excluded.
If anyone learns anything, let's give the glory all to King Jesus!
Email this page to someone.
