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I have heard and accepted what others have said regarding Christ as our Rest. But recently I have been studying the word rest in scripture and I find the following.
Jesus identified himself as many things. The Way, the Truth, the Life, the God of your fathers, the Living Water, the Bread from Heaven, etc. But I did not find any instance where Jesus said, "I am the Rest." Rather, Jesus said, "I will give you rest," and again, "ye shall find rest."
I can accept that when a person accepts Christ they find a rest in many ways. But speaking of rest, the book of Hebrews mentions the seventh-day in this way, that we should cease from our work, as God rested from the work of creation, so that we might enter into the rest of God.
In my search for meaning in the Sabbath I am wondering whether the cessation of work on the seventh-day is symbolic as is baptism and communion, or does it have a special place in that it allows us time to establish our relationship with God. Kinda in the same sense of the story of Martha and Mary. Jesus can be our rest but what if we never stop our daily routine to partake of that rest?
Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. What does this mean? In another place he says, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." What could this mean? The Sabbath was made for man yet there is a command to keep it holy.
I guess I can understand it somewhat. If God made the day holy then it is holy and we should treat it as such just as we should with anything else that God has declared holy. But if the Sabbath was made for man then what benefit did Jesus intend for us to derive from the sabbath? Was it merely a physical rest from work?
Yet again, Jesus said that he was "the Lord even of the sabbath." Does he here identify himself as the Creator? In the context, what is the significance of this statement? Is he telling them that he of all people should be able to know how to properly observe the sabbath day? Maybe he is using this opportunity to free the sabbath day from the burdens placed upon it by the Pharisees.
I will have to continue this later after much more prayerful study and thought. Sorry for so many questions and few answers at this time.
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I don't think that Christ IS my rest, but that because of His sacrifice, I am now able to enter INTO the rest that God has promised. I am guessing that you are speaking of Heb 4:1-14 in your 4th paragraph. This is how I understand that passage- vs 3-"we who believe DO enter that rest" (speaking of when God told the Israelites in the wilderness that they would not enter God's rest because of their disobedience). vs 10 "For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His". So, I no longer have to work- I can rest in Christs finished work, and allow the Spirit to work in and through me. GRACE!
As believers, we are not required to "keep the sabbath" in the 10 commandments sense of the words as made entirely clear by passages such as Col 2:16-17 and Rom 14:5. But Rom 14:5 also allows us to keep the sabbath if we want to. Another interesting passage on this is Acts 15:19-20 which is the letter written by the apostles (all jewish) to the new gentile believers. It spells out which jewish commands they are still required to keep. Keeping the sabbath isn't one of them.
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Jeanne, thanks for your response. I don't want to rehash what we have been through already. We've had numerous exchanges here about the Sabbath. Nor do I want to merely exchange the same old scriptures. There are definitely more than three scriptures to support the Sabbath so in a numbers game you would lose.
So I would like to try to take a different tact than before. I hope it works. To me this is very important so I may ask some hard hitting questions. If you would rather not participate, I understand. I seriously doubt I will change my mind regarding the Sabbath because I have heard many arguments already from scripture which are not definitive. But I am exploring new ground to better understand our rest in Christ.
First, let me explain something so you understand where I am coming from. The verses you mentioned have been discussed before but no one has really taken the time to satisfy my mind because their treatment is too shallow. I see sabbaths that are part of the sacrificial system and then I find a Sabbath in the moral law. Surely the sacrificial system and all its trappings were shadows of the true. But can the same be said for the 7th day Sabbath in the moral law of Ten Commandments? So with such a superficial treatment my mind is left believing that the sabbath days in Col 2:16-17 are speaking, not of the 4th commandment of the moral law but, of the shadow sabbaths of the sacrificial system with its feast days. Romans 14 is speaking of the feast days as well. Besides, the point of Romans 14 is not the Sabbath but rather giving offense. The things cited then become examples of how we ought not to offend.
Well, I lost my focus.
Your statement, "So, I no longer have to work- I can rest in Christs finished work, and allow the Spirit to work in and through me. GRACE!," has also been echoed by Sabbath keepers. But they add that the Sabbath is the time when we cease our work, all of it, to allow God to work. In other words, Christ finished his work on the 7th day and so we cease from our work on the day that God set aside for that purpose so that he can thoroughly work in and through us. If I only cease from my labor by profession but not in reality then have I truly entered into his rest? Somewhere I read that we are not to give merely lip service but true service.
Another point that Sabbath keepers make is that Hebrews 4 talks about Christ ceasing his work and that we should cease ours just as he did his. What non-Sabbath keepers tend to do is to equate our spiritual rest with Christ's rest. The Sabbath keepers say, no! Christ did not rest spiritually because he was pure. Christ rested physically-- he stopped creating. Thus they argue that Hebrews 4 tells us we need to stop from our physical work just as Christ stopped his physical work.
It makes sense to me because I see how busy people get with life and that they really don't take time to be holy. And, they are always talking about our relationship with Christ. But doesn't even life teach us that we need quality time together without distractions to establish a relationship? Even my wife demands I stop working some times just to spend time with her. Sometimes that is hard to do because I feel I have so much that needs to be done. "Give me just a few more minutes," I beg. But she is relentless. "No! We don't get to see each other much so you need to stop now." I comply. If I didn't my relationship with my wife would suffer.
I probably was not around the last time there was a thread about the sabbath, but if you have already had this discussion with others and you have no desire to change the way you see the topic, than why did you bring it up again?
There is not one scripture reference from the new testament that commands believers to keep the sabbath. Nor was the sabbath kept before Moses. Sure, there is in the Law passages, but there are many other commandments there that are no longer binding under the new covenant.
I disagree with your interpretation of Hebrews- as the writer is not refering to the sabbath commandment, but to the rest that God had told the Israelites in the desert that they would not enter.
I agree that we should spend time with God- I do this regularly as well. If setting asside a specific day for this helps you that is fine, but not commanded.
I think I was a bit short with you- sorry . I do find Hebrews fasinating! It is all about the law, the temple, priests, - the OT system, and how it relates to us now. I would guess I would interpret a lot of that book quite differently than you. It would be an interesting book study to do together .
Another thought on this particular passage- It argues that we can enter the rest that has been set apart for us. It says the day we can enter it is today, and that when we enter it we cease from our works. We can enter salvation, today! We can stop striving and working our way to God, and simply enter into this rest through belief in the fact that Christ has finished this work for us! (in 3:19 it says that the Israelites did not enter because of unbelief).
quote:I disagree with your interpretation of Hebrews- as the writer is not refering to the sabbath commandment, but to the rest that God had told the Israelites in the desert that they would not enter.
But what rest did God promise them in the desert. Was it simply to enter into the Promised Land. Notice these two verses which address your contention.
Hebrews 4
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
The rest was not a plot of land. The rest is the same rest we can enter today. I think that is the point the author of Hebrews is trying to make. Leading up to these verses the author argues that the works of the promised rest were finished from the foundation of the world (v3). Then he specifically indicates that rest as the 7th day. (v4) "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works."
Now notice the Greek word used in verse 9 for rest. It is "Sabbatismos". Many other translations have translated this Greek word as "Sabbath rest." If we inserted this into the KJV the verse would then read. "There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest to the people of God."
Now I can't say at this time that this proves that the author is speaking of keeping the 7th day Sabbath holy. After all, I believe that the early Christians were all Sabbath keepers and therefore why would one argue for them to keep the day holy? I think the point is to bring out the significance of the rest that Christ promised so that none should come short of entering. Certainly there is more here than we have allowed. We should not allow anything to stand in the way of our understanding scripture-- neither my bias for Sabbath-keeping, nor your apparent stance against it.
I don't want to get into a battle over the Sabbath, yet again. If you are fully convinced that the Sabbath is not binding upon us today then you have nothing to lose by exploring this more fully. And I realize that the true rest is not found in observing a day. I do believe, however, that keeping the 7th day holy is somehow tied to entering the rest. Perhaps it has something to do with obedience. I think obedience to God-- that is belief and trust-- is the key. Perhaps the Sabbath is symbolic of entering into His rest, just as baptism is symbolic of entering into His death, or communion is symbolic of partaking of Christ's atonement.
I think I have found a link here. Is Hebrews talking about symbolically entering into Christ's rest through the Sabbath because on the 7th day the Lord rested? It does identify His rest as the 7th day. Hmmm... must think on this some more and reread Hebrews 4.
We must utlimately admit that whatever we find will involve accepting Christ as Lord and Savior. That is the focus of the NT and must also be the focus of Hebrews. Yet, to my mind there seems to be something significant about the 7th day when God rested and our entering into His rest.
I am focusing on these verses now.
10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
We rest from our works as God did from His.
Entering the rest requires diligence and obedience.
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The Sabbath has 2 dimensions...like everything of God towards us. There is a physical stopping (sabbath means to stop, not rest)...and there is a spiritual stopping...as in, we should cease from dead works and turn to the living God. The Hebrew word for rest is Menouchah! The name Noah comes from this word. Just my two shekels worth!
Hebrews indicates the 7th day of creation here, not of our week. Hebrews says that God indicated the 7th day of creation to show us that there was a rest for us to enter, then hebrews says that that day that we can enter is TODAY!!!(we don't have to wait for saturday thank goodness). Like in so many other ways (as John brought up) the time period of the law was a time that these spiritual realizations that would be fulfilled in Christ were physicaly played out in the nation of Israel.
Read the whole passage again (including ch 3)- it does not say that entering the rest requires diligence and obedience- it says that it requires belief! It was because of unbelief that the Israelites in the desert didn't enter, their disobedience was clearly a disobedience of unbelief. Another thing to note is that the Israelites had the 10 commandments while they were in the desert, so the physical keeping of the sabbath day is clearly not the rest that was still available, that they had not been able to enter.
Baptism and communion were not things from the OT law, but were NEW things that Christ commanded us to do. He did NOT command us to keep the sabbath, tithe, sacrifice animals.........
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Well Jeanne, you certainly seem to have strong feelings when it comes to the question of whether or not we should be observing the 7th day as Sabbath. But I am trying not to get into a debate over whether we should keep the Sabbath or not. It is pretty much settled for me at this time and appears to be for you as well.
Is there another time you set aside to spend with Jesus. Does it happen when it's convenient for you or at a scheduled time and interval? Share with us how you enter into this rest? Do you actually stop so you can enter the rest or do you simply believe (exercise faith) that you are resting as you go about your daily business? How does it work for you?
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Jeanne, I loved what you said about "belief". That is just it! My whole life is so much more Sabbatical now that I have cease my religious striving.
-------------------- Posing as an Ordinary Housewife :)
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Some people say that Christ has done it all and there is nothing for them to do. This is true when it comes to our justification. We had no part in that.
But what about sanctification? Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." Obviously, this means two things. First, Jesus has commandments. Second, we are to keep them. If we did not keep them wouldn't that constitute disobedience? And, as we have already learned, one cannot enter into God's rest by disobedience.
But there is also two elements of obedience. First, you must know what is expected of you. Second, you must do it. Hearing and doing.
The only time that Jesus spoke of rest he also mentioned a yoke and a burden. He contrasts our labor and being heavy laden with his yoke and light burden. Is this an allusion to the contrast between righteousness by the works of the law and righteousness by faith? And, is the goal the same? In other words, do we by faith attain to the righteousness of God that the Jews failed to attain by the works of the law?
Maybe I cannot answer my own question at this time but I do believe it involves love for Jesus. The law is definitely an impossible burden for man to keep in his carnal nature. But I believe that when we love Jesus that burden becomes light. A light burden would certainly not be grievous but a delight!
To know Jesus definitely means to keep his commandments. "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
To love Jesus definitely means to keep his commandments. "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
Again, we are to take his yoke, walk as he walked, follow where he leads, and be holy as he is holy. I don't think this means we have nothing to do.
So entering into his rest probably doesn't mean spiritual rest in the sense that we have nothing to do. In fact, we enter into a spiritual warfare. That is not rest. And, I am not sure what Laurie Ann means by "religious striving." Perhaps she can explain.
There definitely seems to be a connection between rest and obedience. In Revelation 14, verse 11, it speaks of the disobedient who worship the beast as having no rest day or night. In Hebrews 4 it speaks of not being able to enter into the rest because of disobedience. But it appears that the only way to be obedient and enter the rest is through faith.
But certainly the rest promised must involve being at peace with God here and now. The wicked have no rest but the righteous can rest in that:
1) they do not strive against God 2) they are reconciled to God 3) they obey and are not condemned by the law 4) they have forgiveness of past sins
That would certainly constitute rest in Jesus. We can't be at rest in Christ if we are at odds with his government. No one can have peace with God until they submit to his rule.
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Wrong Jeff- and you know I do not ever say that! It does not mean 2 things, it means 3 things. You just counted wrong! I can not blme you,it seems most skip right over the most important part- importance shown by its first place in order of events.( also helps show it is His answer when asked what is most important.) My friend, you can forget about part 2 commands, and part 3 keeping them, if you do not take part 1: L O V E M E more seriously than anything else in this life.
Put another way- my favorite mantra,if you will: If I loved Him more, I would serve Him better.
Side bar on Sabbath: George in proton treatment at Adventist Clinic in Loma Linda(?) Calf writes: Due to Adventist influence they do not deliver mail on Saturday, but deliver it on Sunday! Whatever works man, Rich
You asked me how I enter Gods rest. I see this in 2 ways- the 2 dimentions that John2 spoke of. I see scripture speak of many things in these terms.
Sacrifice for example: Animal sacrifice was commanded by God to the Israelites. It was something physical under the old covenant that was a shadow of what would come in the new covenant. Under the new covenant, sacrifice has a 2 dimentional meaning for us. 1- It was fulfilled in Christ as he became the perfect once for all sacrifice for our sins. 2- it is practicaly spoken about in romans in that we are told to be a living sacrifice. We don't say, "wow, Christ is our sacrifice, so now we can go back to performing animal sacrifices and it will have so much more meaning for us". We say, "now that I understand Christ's sacrifice(as you said- justification), I can now go on to a much deeper meaning of what it means to sacrifice (sanctification). What is the deeper, new covenant meaning? Becoming a living sacrifice- laying my whole life down before God. As always with the new covenant, this way is both freer and holds us to a higher standard. (what is easier- sacrificing an animal once a year, or sacrificing our whole selves daily?)
Sabbath- entering into God's rest. This was commanded by God in the form of the 7th day sabbath to the nation of Israel, again, as a physical shadow of what was to come in the new covenant. It's 2 dimentional new covenant meaning: 1- Through belief in Christ's perfect sacrifice we can enter into Gods rest (heb 4). 2- practicaly speaking I think this refers to stopping and analyzing again what we are trying to do on our own, and relinquishing these things again to the Lord. Stopping in order to focus on Him, asking Him to work in and through us. Again this is more freeing, and also harder- it isn't something that I do once a week, but daily.
About the commands of Christ- I agree, he wants us to obey them, but what are they? Again, I loved the list that Laurie Ann posted on this, but even better than looking that up- read through the gospels and see what He commanded. I have been reading John lately. Here is a couple of interesting verses that I have run accross: Jn 6:28,29-..."This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" and jn 15:12- "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you".
There is probably a fine line between discussing the Sabbath Rest and discussing the Sabbath day in my theology. Forgive me if I cross over the line now and again. But think of this discussion in this respect. I can argue against same-sex marriage with a homosexual without ever feeling they are trying to convert me. The point of their argument is not to convince me to become homosexual but rather to convince me that there is nothing wrong with them practicing it. So as we discuss points about the Sabbath Rest don't be offended and get upset. Think of it this way. You believe I am wrong for observing the Sabbath and I am attempting to justify my position. I am trying to convince you that I stand on Biblical ground. This does not have to be about me converting you. So with that mindset please allow me to get down to some brass tacks, to coin a very old expression.
First, let's start with the Sabbath day. Many people are of the opinion that the 7th-day Sabbath was given only to the Jews. We need only trace a few scriptures to see that this is not correct.
God blessed the 7th-day and hallowed it at the end of creation week-- Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified [hallowed] it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The moral law of Ten Commandments references creation as the reason to hallow the Sabbath-- Ex 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind, implying all-- Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Jesus recognized the Sabbath would survive his death and resurrection-- Speaking of the destruction of the temple he said, [Mt 24:16-20] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains... pray ye that your flight be not... on the sabbath day:
So if I rest on the Sabbath day I am perfectly justified in doing so. And, if I believe that the Sabbath day is for all men and is still to be hallowed I can enter into a physical rest on the Sabbath day and not be a legalist. After all, if you do what God asked you to do you don't consider yourself a legalist. So there is no grounds for calling me a legalist if I do what I believe God has asked me to do. If this is acceptable then we can move past this point and hopefully not bring it up again in discussion nor think it in our minds.
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You would only be a legalist if you forced others to do as you do...or thought less of them if they didn't observe the day as you do. Enjoy your sabbath day Jeff. I don't think there are any legalists on this forum.
(Let me just ask a question. Should it cause me any grief if someone else does not keep the Sabbath day? When David prayed for forgiveness he said, "Against you, you only, have I sinned." When Joseph resisted sexual advances he said, "How can I do this... and sin against God." The truth is the natural man loves sin and takes pleasure in those who sin. There is nothing in my nature that would offend me apart from the prompting of the Holy Spirit-- for the honor of God. I would not even know it was evil (wrong) if not for God. What comes perfectly natural to me is offensive to God.)
What exactly is Paul talking about in Romans 14? What day is being esteemed above another? Is it the stronger in faith that esteems one day above another? Does the weaker in faith esteem every day alike seeing no difference because his faith is weak?
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It works both ways. Maybe a person who esteems all days alike is caught up in a timeless rapture of spiritual reality in Christ so that there is no more sesnse of earthly time. Or perhaps not. People are different. What motivates one person can actually quench another.
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. I do find Hebrews fasinating! It is all about the law, the temple, priests, - the OT system, and how it relates to us now. I would guess I would interpret a lot of that book quite differently than you. It would be an interesting book study to do together ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
