Al, I agree with much of what you say. And, Faith and I agree in many things. But when it comes to the Sabbath, we don't see eye-to-eye. Personally, I cannot understand how we can separate the Sabbath command from the other nine and reject it yet still believe we uphold the others. Doesn't James say if we break one we break them all? That denounces legalism in all aspects, showing that the law cannot be kept in letter, but only in Spirit. And the spirit of the law is love. Love for God first, and man second. True love, a godly love, cannot be managed--metering it out to those who favor us and withholding it from those who despise us. Neither can the law of love be managed. Either it is kept in it entirety, or it is not kept at all.
If the Sabbath command had not been embodied in the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God on two tabls of stone then I might have an easier time understanding modern theology which attempts to spiritualize away our obligation to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Or, if we could find where Jesus rescinded the 4th commandment then I could accept the teaching.
But, we do not find that Jesus annulled the 4th commandment but rather he gave evidence that it would still be around after his death by his words in Matthew 24. "And pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day." Since the event spoken of was to occur in 70AD, when the Roman army laid seige to Jerusalem, it is clear that the Sabbath day was still in force after the crucifixion. Else, if not, why would Jesus speak of it in this manner?
Another matter which needs clarification is whether or not Jesus broke the Sabbath commandment. Faith's comments tend to suggest that Jesus purposefully broke the Sabbath commandment by allowing his disciples to pluck and eat corn on the Sabbath. But if Jesus had broken the Ten Commandments then he would have been a common sinner and could never have given his life, the Just, for the unjust. His death on the cross would have been payment for his own transgression of the law. For sin is the transgression of the law and the wages of sin is death. But we know that Jesus did no sin. Therefore, he did not break his Father's commandments.
Since Jesus did not break the 4th commandment which would have made him a sinner, what commandment did the Pharisees accuse him of breaking? It was their own laws with which they had augmented the commandments of God. They had attempted to circumscribe the law of God so as to place bounds upon it which men could attempt to keep by the power of their own sanctity. They thought themselves very pious until Jesus exposed what lay deep in their hearts.
While the Sabbath day can become very legalistic in the manner in which it is observed and imposed by men, we need to overcome these obstacles and objections and learn to rest in Christ on the Sabbath by faith. We need to be careful not to make anything a matter of works (legalism) but all things a matter of faith. I mean, afterall, we can make anything legalistic by thinking that by our observing or not observing we are holy because of our own works. Just as observing the Sabbath day can become legalistic and ritualistic, so NOT observing the 7th Day Sabbath can also become legalistic and ritualistic.
Would there by any difference between the two groups if both were legalistically observing or NOT observing the Sabbath? I don't think so. So the real question then is whether or not we are resting in Christ. Now, to my mind, resting in Christ requires a full submission to his will. We haven't any commandment to keep the Sunday holy but we do have a commandment to keep the Sabbath holy. If you keep the Sabbath as a show of piety or a means of obtaining salvation by your own good works then you keep it for nought. But if you keep the Sabbath as an act of faith in Jesus Christ by resting in his work that was finished at Creation, then you are profited by it.
Some will take issue with the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy because they will claim we cannot keep any day holy. Yes, that is true. Neither can we keep any commandment that God has given us!--not in our strength! Remember that Paul told us that the carnal mind was enmity against God and was not subject to his law and indeed could not be. (Romans 8:7). But Jesus certainly was subject to his Father's commandments and always did that which was pleasing in his sight. (John 8:29). Therefore, if Christ lives in our heart and mind then surely his sinless life will also manifest itself in an outward compliance with our Father's will. Maybe we will not be perfect at first, but as we give effort to our desires Jesus covers our imperfections with his righteousness because he understands that we are learning to be like him. So he accepts our feeble attempts to follow in his steps as our best service and recognizes our desire and sincerity to press onward and upward.
If our service to God costs us in this life then we are happy and rejoice to suffer with Christ. When tempted to steal or lie to advance our own cause we are shielded by God's commandments not to steal or bare false witness. God is our protector and high tower. We don't have to live in the bottom lands. Just as our faithfulness to God's commandments may at times cause us to lose gain or suffer loss,financial or otherwise, so too keeping the Sabbath may cause loss.
Loss of salary or of opportunity for gain cannot be considered ahead of seeking to follow righteousness first. If we can greatly benefit ourselves by the telling of a very small lie, we are not to do it. But, as Jesus said, "Don't be concerned first with what you eat or wear. Your heavenly Father knows you have need of all these things. But first seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness and everything needful God will supply." (Matt 6:31-33). Jesus is telling us that there will come things to try us to see who has our heart, our first loyalty. Do we place our needs above doing the will of God? If we suffer loss do we turn from doing God's commandments because they cost us too much or cause us to much inconvenience? I don't think Jesus wants us to waffle with our loyalty simply because need dictates that we be flexible and adaptable. Sorry, but this is the trying of our faith as if by fire. (1 Peter 1:7).
If we are not grounded in principal, in the word of God to do his will, then we may cheat on taxes to save a bit more, steal from our employer to benefit self, lie about the car we are selling to hide the defects, refuse to pay tithe because it cuts into our budget, make poor decisions in order to financially benefit ourselves, demand high wages but negotiate the cheepest price for someone elses labor, and many other ways in which we cover the truth ever so slightly to benefit ourselves and call ourselves shrewd businessmen. But everything that is hidden will be exposed some day. Then the truth will be known.
Well, just wanted to add my piece to help us find that middle ground and keep us from either extreme. I have much more to say but will have to write as time allows. In the meantime, I encourage everyone to make themselves aware of the issues in our world today. Search the internet for "Sunday closure" or "Sunday law" or "Lord's Day Alliance" and find out for yourself that those who would keep you from obeying God's 7th day Sabbath are trying to make a civil law to uphold the 1st day Sunday, so-called Sabbath. This would fill up the cup of America and cause the plagues to fall from God. God hates legalism and to enforce a false Sabbath with civil laws is extreme legalism. If you hate men to dictate to you what you shall do or think, well, God hates it too. God opposes anything which attempts to control the consciences of men. Man is to yield his will to God alone, who will honor man, enoble his will, and return it to man again.
Since this is long, I will write later about true liberty in Christ and the grace that God provides through Jesus to redeem us from our life of sin and reconcile our carnal minds, which are by nature at enmity with God's law, to himself and to bring us into harmony with his will (commandments). About how God does not give us liberty to break the law but restores in our hearts the desire to do his will and find peace with him. Then, having a desire to do God's will, we will be happy to obey, and doing God's will is the ultimate liberty when it is also the desire of the heart. Because then we are doing those things which give us lasting happiness.
quote:Another matter which needs clarification is whether or not Jesus broke the Sabbath commandment. Faith's comments tend to suggest that Jesus purposefully broke the Sabbath commandment by allowing his disciples to pluck and eat corn on the Sabbath. But if Jesus had broken the Ten Commandments then he would have been a common sinner and could never have given his life, the Just, for the unjust. His death on the cross would have been payment for his own transgression of the law. For sin is the transgression of the law and the wages of sin is death. But we know that Jesus did no sin. Therefore, he did not break his Father's commandments.
Jeff,
My point was not that Jesus broke the Sabbath, for he didn’t; but that the legalistic judizers thought he did. He showed us how we are free to do certain things in certain circumstances that might be considered breaking the Sabbath by some. He showed us how people and their needs were more important than customs. He also showed us how there are extenuating circumstances that require us to have compassion rather than compulsion. You might remember David and the illegal showbread as another example where man’s needs out weigh certain laws.
quote: They had attempted to circumscribe the law of God so as to place bounds upon it which men could attempt to keep by the power of their own sanctity. They thought themselves very pious until Jesus exposed what lay deep in their hearts.
While the Sabbath day can become very legalistic in the manner in which it is observed and imposed by men, we need to overcome these obstacles and objections and learn to rest in Christ on the Sabbath by faith. We need to be careful not to make anything a matter of works (legalism) but all things a matter of faith. I mean, afterall, we can make anything legalistic by thinking that by our observing or not observing we are holy because of our own works. Just as observing the Sabbath day can become legalistic and ritualistic, so NOT observing the 7th Day Sabbath can also become legalistic and ritualistic.
This is the attitude I have seen in both Saturday and Sunday “keeping” churches. They set down rules of how they think the day should be “kept” and then accuse any who don’t obey their idea of how to “keep” as breaking the day. Thus, should we judge the man who has to work now and again on the Sabbath as breaking the Sabbath? If we do, aren’t we just the same as the Pharisees who accused Christ of breaking the Sabbath?
quote: Loss of salary or of opportunity for gain cannot be considered ahead of seeking to follow righteousness first. If we can greatly benefit ourselves by the telling of a very small lie, we are not to do it. But, as Jesus said, "Don't be concerned first with what you eat or wear. Your heavenly Father knows you have need of all these things. But first seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness and everything needful God will supply." (Matt 6:31-33). Jesus is telling us that there will come things to try us to see who has our heart, our first loyalty.
I have seen many speak as you do to many brothers and sisters in need. Don’t worry, God will supply. Peace to you, brother. To them I say:
James 2:15-16 (KJV) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, [16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Thus if the person in need is given opportunity to work for their needs, who can judge them if the Lord provides that work on the Sabbath? After all it is his day and he made it for our use. Work for survival is very different for working for gain.
Rest on the Sabbath is good. However, to say in order to rest on the Sabbath in Christ, we must not work for money, not work for our boss, not work for this or that but could make an exception only for doing good for a widow, then have we not become legalists? Can’t we use the day as needed each week for what ever good is needful? Does the Sabbath rest have to be the same every week? If so, isn’t it a ritual? That is my point. Spiritual rest doesn’t always include physical rest.
Also do we have to “go to church” to rest? Or do we have to do churchy things to rest? Is it really wrong to go away from the multitudes to a quiet mountain to be alone with God and his creation to rest? Is it wrong to toss in a fishing line while sitting there soaking in our Lord’s glorious creation? Or would it be wrong to play with our kids out in the park as we taught them of our Lord and his wonders? Do we always have to rest in Christ the way the Pharisees have taught us to? Or are we free in Christ to rest in him in his spirit and his truth where ever we might be?
I believe Christ’s example showed us that we can do many things we’ve been taught were taboo by the church leaders. I believe he showed us that he has fulfilled the Sabbath and that we are to rest in him. To rest in him doesn’t mean we must have a complete list of do’s and don’ts for Sabbath keeping. Rather we keep it in him and use it as opportunity arises. And many times we will be accused of breaking it because we don’t do the churchy things men love so much. Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I am very sorry to hear that you suffered much at the hands of professing Christians. They say ex-smokers are the hardest on smokers and so it must also be true that self-righteous people are the hardest on sinners. But please don't let these unconsecrated folk influence your walk with God. This is one of Satan's most effective means for turning people onto the wrong path or turning them against God entirely. Don't you fall prey to this scheme.
It is not that I have no compassion for those in need. I feel for your situation and agree that sometimes is seems we must work on the Sabbath day to provide for our family. But part of the 4th commandment is to work six days and rest on the Sabbath from all our labor. We are not to do any work nor is any work to be done on our properties. If this were a commandment of men then we could call it legalistic. But since it is God's will, it must be considered obedience to God rather than legalistic ritualism. It was not the Pharisees who commanded us to work six days and rest on the Sabbath. It was God.
When Jesus gave his famous plea to mankind to "come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest," wasn't he speaking of resting in him? Isn't the 7th day Sabbath the perfect opportunity to do just that? To put away everything secular and focus on the heavenly? And, the beautiful thing about doing this on the 7th day is that we are resting in Jesus because we are doing exactly that which he has asked us to do exactly when he asked us to do it. Now, if we don't work the other six days, we are breaking the Sabbath commandment as well? We are to work like Martha six days of the week but rest like Mary on the 7th.
In order to understand how God, not man, wishes us to keep the Sabbath we only need look at scripture. We are told to remove our foot from "trampling" the Sabbath and stop doing our own pleasure and call the Sabbath a delight. So while I may travel to the mountains to commune with God in nature on the Sabbath day, I probably would not want to take along my dirt bike. It might be a little difficult to hear the still, small, voice of God with all that noise. And, it requires a lot of mental concentration to ride a dirt bike. However, I am not saying you couldn't ride it to a peaceful destination. These are the things that we must decide for ourselves. There is no commandment not to ride a bike so we must look inside ourselves to see what spirit is guiding us. Is it something which would glorify God or is it just a past-time? We each must decide these things for ourself.
I hope you remain open minded to this question of the Sabbath and pray to see whether or not what I say is aligned with scripture. You don't need to tell anyone about it. Just let it be between you and your Lord.
Part 2
Hi Faith,
(cont...)
Just wanted to ask another question about this paragraph in your first post.
quote:I have been asked various times why I believe it is OK for a person to work on the Sabbath if their job requires it. I must answer, the Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around. For if a man would lose his livelihood and thus be unable to feed his own family by refusing to work at all on the Sabbath, would Jesus tell him to go to church, to rest or to go feed his family?
Which would require more faith? To accept the Sabbath work and provide for one's family, or to keep the Sabbath and trust that God can provide?
Which would be considered human work? To rest on the Sabbath and trust God to provide, or take the Sabbath job and earn money?
Which would be considered resting in Christ? To work on the Sabbath to provide for one's family, or rest on the Sabbath according to the commandment and trust God to provide?
Which would require more grace? To work and earn money on the Sabbath like every other person, or rest on the Sabbath and ask God to provide?
Which would grant the most liberty? To work on the Sabbath and make money to provide for one's family, or to rest from our labor and worship God with heart, mind, soul, and body?
If a person is resting from all his work on the Sabbath day and trusting fully in Jesus, how can it be said he is working (legalism). It seems apparent that the Sabbath, like no other commandment, attests openly that we are resting in Jesus, trusting his works, and refraining from our works. Every other commandment can be feigned--though God knows the truth for he reads the heart. Though it would seem difficult to hide the fact that one does not honor their parents.
If you had to error, would you want to error in upholding the commandments of God or would you want to error by teaching others to break what seems to be one of the least commandments?
I’m not telling people to break the Sabbath; but rather to examine how Jesus taught us to keep it and not to be legalistic telling folks what they can or can’t do. It depends on the circumstance. I have from personal experience and knowing of others personal experiences seen how legalistic Sabbath keepers can be. So can Sunday folks, I’m not picking on Sabbath “keepers”. I believe we are to “Remember the Sabbath , to keep it holy.” However, it is not our keeping that makes it holy. It is holy and we are to remember it. We remember it is holy.
I have seen how one can do without a job or without a living wage and receive food and clothes from the Lord. BTW, he did not use the churches who preach (but don’t practice) to help one another to help these folks; but used secular means to provide for them. As for waiting on a job, who are you to judge when God finally after months of testing provides one with Sabbath work? One who obviously has never been through this trial can not understand. Just so one who still loves the system can not understand why God has led others to leave and never go back to such bondage.
Judge not another man’s servant. What others do unto the Lord is between them and the Lord. Just so, you should not judge all people who attend church on Sunday. The Lord only knows who is saved and who is not. I believe he still has some people in those groups; just like he has some Sabbath keepers who are lost. Only he knows which issues he will enlighten them on and lead them out of by the time he comes. He knows each heart and which issue is of most importantance to deal with at just the right time. While he gives us the call to come out of Babylon, only he knows which part of Babylon is giving us the most trouble and will deal with it accordingly.
BTW, remembering the Sabbath is not the least of commands for by remembering it, we remember how the Lord created all things. We also see how we he provided us rest in Christ. Christ is all important.
As to how you view my keeping of the Sabbath, I would warn you, you better be sure you “keep” it right after judging me as a Sabbath breaker.
Matthew 7:1-2 (KJV) Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Romans 14:1-10 (KJV) Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. [2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. [3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. [4] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. [7] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. [8] For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. [9] For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. [10] But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
One last point I might mention about working. In Exodus 20 the word mlakah is used to mean work. It has several definitions: deputyship, i. e. ministry; general employment (never servile) or work (abst or con.) also property (as in the result of labor) business, +cattle,+industrious, occupation (+pied) + officer, thing (made) use, (manner of work (man) –manship).
I found it interesting that the word ministry was mentioned as work. What are the implications of that? I also noted that it never means servile work. That brings to mind the passages about servants and their masters. The believing masters are the ones who are to give the servants time off. The responsibility to not work on the Sabbath lies with the boss. It is on his head if he requires his employees to work. At least that how it looks to me. Servants obey their master even if he is not good.
Col. 4:1 (KJV) Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
1 Peter 2:18 (KJV) Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
That’s all I have to say on the Sabbath issue, except
quote: Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I am not completely callous to your employment situation. I have been dealing with Sabbath work issues for over ten years now. And, since my employer is outsourcing its IT department to IBM, I am again faced with looking for work and the trials that come with Sabbath keeping in our modern world. But, to my mind, these are minor compared to the coming great tribulation when we will neither be able to buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. I believe that God would have us be faithful to his commandments in the face of all difficulty, even the threat of death--as will be the case when the mark of the beast is enforced.
(BTW, I started a new topic as David suggested. I will be moving my posts there. I have moved my first post there and now it is your turn. I guess this alternating moving of our posts is required to keep them in order. So, I moved one, now you move yours, then I will move my next one, and so on until we are done.
Thanks, David, for the warning about the long posts. You have been very long-suffering and considerate of others. Is there any way for us to monitor the size and to know when it approaches 125k?
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Feasts are yearly, new moons monthly, Sabbaths weekly, and eating and drinking daily. Daily we eat and drink Christ, weekly we have completion and rest in Him, monthly we experience a new beginning in Him, and throughout the year He is our joy and enjoyment. Therefore, daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly Christ is to us the reality of every positive thing mentioned in verse 16. The term body here, when used in contrast to shadow indicates the opposite meaning, i.e., the reality or substance itself. A shadow is a reflected image, an imperfect and faint representation, it is not the real substance as the body is the real thing, but a shadow or image is a faint representation of that real thing, which is the body that cast a shadow. Here Christ (the Anointing) is the real thing, real substance of all that was a shadow, the feasts, new moons, sabbath days, meat and drink. Therefore in verse 17 Christ is the body, Christ is the reality of the Sabbath, Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath and is the Sabbath. The Sabbath is no longer a day to be kept, but a Devine Person to be kept, to enter into, and for experiencing all of the aspects of the yearly feasts, monthly new moon festivals, weekly Sabbath rests, daily eating and drinking.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
I think the meaning of verse 10 is better seen in this English literal translation: "The for having come in into the complete stop of him and himself completely stopped from the works of him as indeed from the own the God".
For having come in into the rest (complete stop) of Him. The rest of Him. Verse 11, Let us labor therefore to enter into That Rest. That Rest we, "enter into", then also we have ceased from our own works. Were we not just created "for good works", it is not our works, our works are? It is not our fruit, it is His fruit, the fruit of the Spirit. He is building the Church and so on. He is the reality of the Sabbath, He is our rest, He is our enjoyment, He is our food, we must eat and drink Him daily, He is our strength, He is the resurrection, He is the Life, and so on and so on.
Thanks for participating in our discussion. It is good to get input from others. Let's take a look at some other translations of Hebrews 4:9
9 (asv) There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
9 (av) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. {rest: or, keeping of a sabbath}
9 (BBE) So that there is still a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.
9 (Darby) There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.
9 (ylt) there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,
As can easily been seen from these many translations, the word rest literally means 'Sabbath keeping.' The greek word is sabbatismos which strong's defines this way:
1) a keeping sabbath 2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Yes, Jesus is the reality of our rest just as his life and death are the reality of our life and death. Yet, we do still baptise as a symbol of entering into his death and resurrection just as the scripture tells us there is still a sabbath to keep which is the sign and symbol of entering into his rest. Plus, we have the Lord's supper as a memorial to remember him. So, while there are spiritual aspects to these realities we still have the physical counterparts. Jesus often used the common things to teach us spiritual things. I think he still does.
BTW, I am not attempting to cause anyone to keep the Sabbath against their will. Nor am I attempting to judge anyone's relationship with Jesus. I am trying to present a argument giving favorable reasons for remembering the Sabbath. Then everyone can choose for themselves how or if they will remember it. There are plenty of people to teach that the Sabbath is no longer pertinent. But there are very few voices raised to call people to remember it and honor it, not as a means of earning favor or meriting salvation by our own works but, because it is a sign that we worship the Creator God who created this world and acknowledging that he created it in six days and rested on the 7th. We don't want to be ignorant of these facts as Peter warns in 2 Peter 3:5.
Jesus did not need to rest after creation for he was not tired. He rested because his work was finished. It was perfect. Nothing remained undone. So too, when Jesus died he said, "It is finished," and again rested on the Sabbath showing that his work on earth was also perfect and complete. There was nothing left undone. This symbolizes that the work of salvation for mankind was perfect and complete as well. When we rest from our labor on the Sabbath we are experiencing the rest from our work to save ourselves. We are resting in the work of Christ in our behalf. So, to rest on the Sabbath day cannot be legalism because legalism is working for your own salvation. Sabbath keeping is resting from our work and resting in the work of Jesus. I am not saying that it cannot become legalistic, I am just saying that it is oppposed to legalism and meant to overthrow that whole concept. Remember, we can make just about anything legalistic, including the Sabbath rest which is itself contrary to legalism.
Jesus rested on the 7th day as an example for us just as he was baptised as an example for us. If we follow his example in baptism, why shouldn't we follow his example in rest? The 7th day is the day that God sanctified for human rest. Hebrews 9 also admonishes us to enter into the rest even as Jesus entered into his rest after creation. Verse 10 admonishes us, "Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience." (ASV). How can we ignore these verses? Is it because our sinful hearts desire to do their own thing regardless of the consequences? I wish the blindness could be lifted from our eyes.
(BTW, we have already discussed Col 2:16. You may want to review it. Here is a link to a discussion of Col 2:16 within this cafe: Click Here . )
We didn't really focus much on Col 2:16 and the items mentioned as being shadows of the true. Verse 14 and 15 tells us why we should not let anyone judge us in these things. It is because the death of Jesus abolished them--that is, the sacrificial system, the earthly priesthood, the feast days, and the ceremonial rituals that pertained to the earthly sacrificial system. Meats and drinks were also used in the sacrificial system. (See Heb 9:10). And the sabbath days were part of that same system. This is not speaking of the 7th day Sabbath which is part of the Ten Commandments and was established at Creation. This is speaking of the sabbath days which were celebrated with the various feasts. When the true Lamb of God died, there was no longer any need for the sacrificial system. Jesus needed to die only once whereas animal sacrifices were offered day after day, year after year but never made anyone perfect or remitted any sin.
The law mentioned in Heb 10:1 must therefore be the Levitical ordinances detailing the priesthood, the sacrifices for sin, and so on. This is not speaking of the Ten Commandments.
posted
"Yes, Jesus is the reality of our rest..." In acknowledging this you do well, but it is of no profit to you until you enter in, so labor to enter in, lest you fall after the same example of unbelief. For we which have believed do enter into that Rest. You must kept the Sabbath. Eat and drink Him in reality, rest in Him in reality. Yes, be baptized in reality too. Yes, it is clear that the Lord used these common things to teach us the spiritual reality, so take the reality. Just as baptism saves us, just as it saved the eight, which prefigured baptism, which now saves you—not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience to God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So take the reality through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Enter into His rest, hear His voice while it is still called today, do not harden your hearts.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world...And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief...Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts...There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
It is the enemy who says "rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come". The deceiver wants to change the times and the laws, he also wants to wear you out. Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws...
Have you not experienced the joy and peace in the Kingdom of God? The Holy Spirit, Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is...righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Did The Word not come into the world and go forth to us? Are we not to keep the Sabbath from polluting it, and take hold of the covenant, the Christ (the Anointing), the Promised Holy Spirit? Is His Kingdom not an everlasting one? Is He not King of kings, crowned and sitting as King now. Did He (God) not say "I will be your exceeding and great reward, Gen 15:1. Whereby has it not been given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature. Did the Promise not come and become The Life Giving Spirit. Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. 12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off. 1 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called a house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. 9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest. 10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand... Have you forgotten? Are you now returning to the common examples He used to teach you of the reality? Focus on the heavenly and not the earthly. Have you forgotten the reality is always available. Do you teach us to focus on the earthly symbols, the physical, to these customs and ceremonies, rather then entering into the reality. You wouldn't place such emphasis there, if you had tasted the reality. He said "you must drink my blood and eat my flesh" and do this often in remembrance of Him. Is this crackers and grape juice He is speaking of? Or wine and special unleavened bread He is speaking of, for those that wish to be even more correct, in their ceremonial practices? Or is it Living Bread, Living Blood, Living Water, etc? Haven't you heard: "notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.", Luk 10:11 and Luk 11:20 "But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you." That the kingdom of God does not come with observation, Luk 17:20, that it is within you, v.21
Yes, I am speaking to you of something more then the practice of ceremonial baptism, the Lord's table, the Sabbath days, and our acknowledgement of the symbolic reality behind them. Yes, I am telling you to take The Reality today, to enter in His rest today. To eat His flesh and drink His blood often, daily. To be washed in the Living Water, drink the Living Water, die to self, take up the reality of your cross, lose your soul, follow Him daily, enter into Him as your Rest. He is the Resurrection, Joh 11:25 Just knowledge of it is still dead and brings death, it is from the tree of knowledge of good... It is not the Lord Himself who is Life, the Tree of Life, the River of Life that must be eaten and drunk of. In the scriptures you will not find Life, it is knowledge, yes good, and good for child instruction, correction, etc., but only He, Himself is Life and we must grow-up and come to Him, Joh 5:39-40, 11:25, 2 Tim 3:16. He is the righteousness, the only righteous one, the Righteousness of God.
Don't yes, yet, me or yes, but, me. You are not hearing and seeing the One I am telling and showing you, because it is not enough to acknowledge Him, you must experience Him. Be much more saved in His Life, Rom 5:10. We were reconciled, the debt paid, but salvation, sanctification, transformation is an ongoing process. And it occurs as we behold Him, 2 Cor 3:18. Remember He said "I will come to you", "I will not leave you alone". Was the Gospel not preached to them, as well as, us, Heb 4:2, but it did them no good because it was not believed, it was not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
The New Jerusalem is coming down from Heaven to earth, Rev 21:2. The kings of the earth, the kings of the King are entering in, Rev 3:13 and does it not say some were in Revelations they are bringing their offerings into the city, yet were are they and the city. Rev 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." And yet we still see outside, Rev 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." The two witnesses are the two lampstands, the lampstands are the churches, were are the churches? Don't miss it all right now, don't let the deceiver tell you it is tomorrow or maybe some day in the future. The scoffers say nothing has changed since our fathers days because they don't see it, and John has told us we have been in the last days for so long now, and many many antichrists have come, many false apostles. Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rev 22:9...and of them WHICH KEEP the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.... and yet He says: verse 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me..."with me", Greek: amid me, implying accompaniment. He is the Last, it is finished.
There is a difference in what I am speaking to you. I am not saying "what is the truth?" I am saying He is The Truth! I am not saying what is the Sabbath? I am saying He is The Sabbath! He is the Reality of the Sabbath. He is saying also, "I am the Truth", "I am the Life", "I am the Resurrection", "I am the Bright and Morning Star". Overcomers receive the Morning Star, overcoming is for this age, we are to overcome now, and He (the Morning Star) is our reward, and He will make us a pillar in the temple of His God, and what is the temple of His God, we/you are the temple of God, the church (us) is the house of God.
We are not asking you what is the Sabbath, How do you keep the Sabbath, does the Sabbath need to be kept? Of course He does. I am saying He is The Sabbath! He is saying I am The Sabbath! Enter in with us that have believed and rest from your toils and works today!
You think you are doing no harm, not attempting to cause anyone to keep the Sabbath against their will. Nor attempting to judge anyone's relationship with Jesus. Just trying to present a argument giving favorable reasons for remembering the Sabbath. Then everyone can choose for themselves how or if they will remember it. However, you are pointing them to something other then The Reality, something other then Christ (the Anointing) come in the flesh, the Kingdom within. You are pointing them to something that is not Christ, to something other then the Reality. To a common example, practice, ceremony, etc., an earthly, an outward focus, the things of this world, that He used to point us to Him alone to set us free from captivity. Can you see the damage in this?
Jeff all last night and this morning while I was asking the Lord what I should say to you, I have been in extreme pain, do to an abscessed tooth. I wrote this to you while I was waiting to see the dentist in allot of pain. Now, I have been scheduled for a root canal procedure this after noon. I will probably post this when I get home. Yet, I am in all this pain so excited to speak to you about The Reality and praise our Lord, so full of joy and peace within, I am resting in Him, dwelling in Him, the Promised Holy Spirit, the Lord who became The Life Giving Spirit, The Living Water, The Life, The Resurrection from the dead, The Sabbath, The Bread of Life. How is it, that we can sing songs of praise with such joy and peace, in such pain and suffering? How is it the disciples could? How is it the martyrs could while being burned and eaten alive? It is because the Kingdom has come. It is because there is The Reality to enter into. The Kingdom of God is...joy, peace, and righteousness in the Holy Spirit, Rom 14:17.
How do we love our enemies as our father does? Enemies that we were once. Repay evil with kindness? Have patience, long-suffering, love between each other? Except and fellowship with brothers, not because of our likes, our interests, our practices, our agreement of doctrine, our theology, our skin color, or anything like that. We can't have the fruit of the Spirit between us in ourselves, in our nature, not for long no matter how hard we try or how much self-discipline we exercise, not in reality or truly. So How? It is the fruit of the Spirit, it is not our fruit, it is the King and were the King is, there is the Kingdom, within you. It is the Lord of the Sabbath and were the Lord of the Sabbath is, is the Sabbath Rest. Tell me you get It, see It, hear It, and am experiencing It (Him) now!
Hey, I survived the root canal and the doctor even found another one he wants to do in a couple of days. What can you say but praise the Lord!, it all passes before Him. Anyway, hope this doesn't come across as to hard or directed at you personally, I'm a terrible writer. We just want the best for you now, and that Divine Person the Spirit of Jesus Christ dwelling in you is The Best. Don't lose out today, in this age. Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you believe in him, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit, Rom 15:13.
That was a wonderful post. Jesus is our rest. He is the one who makes us perfect and worthy to enter into God's kingdom. It is not only the sabbath, but all the other things you mentioned, as well, that we humans tend to look at with human eyes; rather than keeping our eyes on the Lord and the heavenly. I hope your tooth is feeling better. And good luck with the next one.
Jeff,
I am not sorry for one painful minute I sat in any of the churches I visited. God can and does work all things for our good. We are to rejoice in trial and tribulation. He showed me many things, one of the most important was the difference in the pharisaical legalist and true freedom in Christ. Another was the difference in the nonchalant liberal and true freedom in Christ.
I would warn you of the changes being made not only in bibles but also in dictionaries. You must have gotten your definition of 4520 online. There are different Greek dictionaries. Strong’s using the traditional Greek from the KJV line of manuscripts and other dictionaries who use the Westcott and Hort Greek. (Westcott and Hort were occultists.) I just became aware of the differences in dictionaries recently myself. I know you don’t agree with Darbyism so why use his Bible? I understand he was paid by secret societies to write his version.
4520 Sabbatismos, sabbatism, the repose of Christianity, (as a type of heaven)- rest.
2663 Katapauala from 2664, reposing down, abode, rest.
2664 kataqauo, to settle down, to colonize or to cause to desist, cease, give rest.
Hebrews 4:4-9 (KJV) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. [5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: [7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. [8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. [9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10-11 (KJV) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Repose (Webster’s) a state of resting after exerction or strain; esp. rest in sleep. Eternal or heavenly rest, (pray for the –of a soul) as a place of rest, peace, tranquility….
I think verses 10 and 11 sum it up. When we enter into Christ’s rest, we have ceased from our own works. We don’t cease from our works that we may keep the day and enter into Christ. Our abode, our rest is in Christ. It is in him we abide not in trying to keep a day perfect. Our righteous works always fall way short, filty rags before the Lord. That is why we so need our rest to be in him. We are perfected through him.
May God bless you and lead you through the maze of men’s churchanity to completely put your trust in him only that you may enter into that rest. A rest that is much better than physical rest. (Though physical rest is nice, it doesn’t save.)
Love in Christ, Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
You have spoken very frankly, and now I must speak frankly with you.
What you have said about Jesus is true. He is our rest. But while Jesus is the reality of our rest there remains an actual rest for us as well. Our final rest will be when sin has been destroyed and we live in a kingdom ruled solely by God. Jesus has made this rest possible for us and he is the Provisionary of eternal rest. Yet, while we have rest in him in this world we are not experiencing that final rest he has promised to us until we are free from the temptation and effects of sin we now experience in this world--things such as violence, sickness, death of our loved ones, and yes, even tooth aches.
What is the reality of Jesus as our rest? Is it not freedom from slavery to sin? Jesus gave us his law, his precepts (commandments), to illustrate kingdom principles which help us know God himself. If a person claims to know the Lord and does not keep his commandments, that person is in reality a liar as John has told us in scripture.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
You have challenged me to experience Jesus as my rest. But I ask, How can a man rest in Christ unless it is by faith? And doesn't a living faith call for both belief and action? I believe that Jesus is my rest and I keep his commandment regarding the Sabbath as a sign of that faith. Else, what does it profit me to keep the Sabbath when if intrudes on my personal life and interferes with my work to provide for my family. So you see, it is truly by faith that I keep the Sabbath as a sign to the world and universe that I am resting (trusting) in God. Now SS I ask you, as James asked, Show me your faith without works? Isn't your faith dead if not accomanied by works of faith? I mean, after all, any one can SAY they rest in Jesus. But who can know if their faith is alive or dead but those who stretch their faith by obedience regardless of the consequences?
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Now, in your post you said that "in the scriptures you will not find Life." This is in direct contradiction to the testimony of scripture and the words of Jesus recorded in scripture.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness he answered that we are to live by "every word that procedeth out of the mouth of God."
When God speaks there is power to create and recreate. He speaks and things which previously did not exist come into existence.
Regarding the scriptures, Paul admonished Timothy with these words:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I sense from your post that you may be loosing confidence in scripture. That you feel that you are being led by the spirit (of God) to something higher that the Bible. But I warn you that the Spirit of God will not contradict scripture nor lead a person away from faith in the Bible as the inspired word of God. The Bible speaks of Jesus who is the Word of God made flesh. He lived the scriptures as a visual example of the written word of God. His life was in harmony with the Bible and he fulfilled the law and prophecies.
If you feel you are lead by the Spirit of God then by what authority will you judge whether that spirit is of God of not?
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
And, the previous verse tells us how we are to TRY the spirit to see if it is from God.
1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
What I am saying, SS, is that we cannot know God unless we take the steps God has given us to lead us to Jesus. There is a way that seems right to us but is not the way that God has chosen. We cannot ignore the provisions of God for things of our own choosing and expect to arrive at the same place. If we do not follow God's word then we will be terribly disappointed in the end.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The law contains precepts which help us understand principles which help us know Jesus, who portrayed God to man in human flesh. So many people think they can skip the process and just somehow know God without experiencing the precepts and principles which help us understand Jesus in truth. We have good feelings about our relationship with God but we do not exercise faith. And, as we learned earlier, someone who says they know God but doesn't keep his commandments is a liar. That is, they don't really know God. They just think they know God. So in order to experience God in truth we must be obedient.
The Lord does not give the Holy Spirit to just anyone. He only gives the Holy Spirit to those who are obedient, or, more correctly, who wish to become obedient by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
When we receive Christ, his life, as our life, we receive power to become children of God. God's children are characterized by obedience to their Father. The children of disobedience are slaves to their father, the Devil.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Anyone can call Jesus Savior, but he cannot save us unless he is first Lord of our life
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
And, if we love him, Jesus has asked that we obey him and keep his commandments.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And, surely, the final war will be between those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, and those who receive the mark of the beast.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
This is the war of Armageddon. The final battle of evil against Good.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
How can we say we love Jesus, know God, love our brothers, and still think we can exclude ourselves from obedience to every word of God? It puzzles me. And, Jesus says the storm will wash away their foundation.
Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
SS, there is just too much evidence in scripture to ignore our duty to obey God. We are to be servants of righteousness and not slaves to sin. God has predestinated us to good works. It has to be! And, so, by obedience to Jesus we find our rest in him and we can call upon him in our time of need and expect to receive help.
1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
If we refuse to keep God commandments, he doesn't hear our prayers!
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
After all, it is sin which separates us from God. And, if we hold to sin, which is the transgression of the law, then we are choosing to remain unreconciled to God and out of harmony with his will. Don't you think for a moment that a person who chooses to continue in disobedience to God will have peace with him or be justified. Once you know to do right and do it not, it becomes sin. But even if we are confronted with the truth and refuse to hear it we are still responsible as if we had heard it. So ignorance will not be an excuse. Not when we have the Bible in front of us.
Well, I would like to hear your comments. Hopefully, your pain from your tooth has stopped. But if you are still experiencing pain, try something for me and tell me if it helps. Drink about 8 oz of pineapple juice. I have done this two, maybe three, times and it has worked for me. It may work for you as well--and without pain meds.
(BTW, this topic is growing large and we are now focused on Jesus as our rest. So I am going to start a new topic in this topic called "Jesus As Our Rest.")
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Lemme weigh in with an idea about house church.
Years ago, I realized that my Sunday's were wearing me down with the two trips to the "meeting house" and the teaching and the "preaching." The day of rest had become a day of weariness. This was one factor that caused me to migrate into the land of house church. I do not regret having done so.
Godspeed to all who travel through these parts. May the Lord direct you on your journey.
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When Jesus was talking to the people whenever He would tell them the commandments He never mentioned the commandment to keep the Sabbath. Have you ever noticed that? Not one time did He mention it as He was listing them. Could it be because He is the Sabbath and He knew that.
I can understand your circumstances with the many mouths to feed and the little bodies to dress before church.
Hi Kim,
I want to get back to you on your post but needed to wait awhile to comply with the cafe's policy to allow others a chance to respond. I hope to be able to reply to you today.
He did not repeat the sabbath command in the NT. Just as he expanded the other commands to incompass man's heart and thoughts (murder to hate, adultry to lust) He expanded the sabbath day to include doing good things from the heart. Thus, he showed us by example things we were actually free to do. He also explained how we now rest in him and the day is for us.
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I don't think Jesus ever repeats the command forbidding idol worship or having other gods before him. Nor does it appear that he mentions the command forbidding coveteousness. Why do you think this is?
When Jesus was asked what was required of man to enter into eternal life, he referred his hearers to the Ten Commandments and their duty to obey them. He specifically mentions several of the Ten Commandments so that there will be no doubt in the hearer's mind as to which commandments he is speaking of. But, it was not necessary for him to mention all of the commandments. We often make similar reference in our daily conversation. Otherwise, our speech would become too tedious if we quoted every particular.
But Jesus was citing those commandments which should have revealed to the inquisitor the true condition of his heart and that in reality he was not keeping any of the commandments because of his selfishness and greed. Jesus exposed the young man's legalistic approach to salvation and the young man could not receive it and he went away sad.
As Faith said previously, Jesus lived the law by example, and even in death his disciples did not embalm his body on Friday evening because the Sabbath drew nigh.
If you think about it seriously, scripture is the written word, Jesus is the Living Word--the Word made flesh. Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. His life was the living out of the precepts and principles and prophecies of scripture. All of scripture spoke of him. So Jesus also embodies the Ten Commandments within his life. When we receive him we receive his Divine nature. He is written in our hearts and minds. This is how the law is written in our hearts and in our minds according to the New Covenant. Israel had the written law which they were never able to internalize. We have the Living Law which is willing to indwell us, to come into us and sup with us, if we will open the door.
If we receive Christ into our hearts by faith, then the issue of keeping the law is moot, for the law lives within us. However, merely professing to have Jesus in your heart is of no value. The life must attest to his indwelling. And, that life will be the righteousness of God which is witnessed by the law and the prophets, correct?
So then, we come back to the purpose for the law. The law can never impart righteousness to us, but Jesus can. The law does, however, condemn sin. Its purpose is to identify sin so that we can know that we need a Savior and can confess and repent of our sin. And, as Paul says in Romans 3, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets."
The righteousness of God without the law is the life of Jesus received by faith. But if while we profess to have this righteousness and we are found to be sinners, breaking the law, then there is something wrong with our profession. This is the purpose the law serves--to point out sin. Or, as Paul said elsewhere, so that sin might abound. He did not mean that the law would cause us to sin more, but that by this law we would see the abundance of sin in our life. But that is good because it leads us to Christ. And so the law is also our schoolmaster to teach us about sin so that we will flee to Jesus.
However, if we don't recognize the purpose of the law and we start to pick-it apart, looking for loopholes, then we make ourselves into legalists--making lists of those we must keep and those we can ignore. We have by our refusal to accept ALL of Christ by faith fallen into legalism making our own private list of what must be observed and what is no longer binding. Can you see my reasoning here? If the righteousness is by faith in Jesus, then it will be complete and exceed the law's requirements. If, however, we are self-righteous, then we will be continually coming up short and always looking for least requirements to excuse our short-comings.
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I had the wonderful opportunity of reading the book of Romans within just seconds after I was baptised in the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact I was trying to read in Romans before I was baptised in the Holy Spirit. I couldn't understand it so I thought I would go listen to a record on the 10 commandments by Dr. Van Impe. During the time I was listening to that record I was actually baptised in the Holy Spirit. It had nothing to do with the record at all or Dr. Van Impe it simply was God's timing for that to happen to me. God saw that my heart was yearning to understand His Word and He was going to help me understand it.
I returned to the bible and started reading at Romans 7 and understood it clearly, so I proceeded to Romans 6 and then Romans 5. I understood it with such clarity that I started at Romans 1 and read the entire book all the way through.
I came to understand many things about Abraham and how his faith, when he was yet uncircumsized was what made him the father of the gentiles as well as the father of the Jews. Abraham believed God and it was accredited to him for righteousness before Abraham was circumcised. Therefore all nations are blessed through Abraham. Jew and gentile. I also came to understand that no one could keep the 10 commandments, no one has ever been able too. The law was given to afford sin, to make us utterly sinful and in such state as to need a Savior. Once the law was given then sin manifested itself. The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to the realization that we can not do it ourself. The law itself is good and holy and true but our carnal nature became exceedingly sinful once the law appeared.
It is like on a child's birthday a child can not enjoy opening a present unless there is a present to open. So you bring in a wrapped gift and put it in the middle of the room and tell the child not to open it (you just gave the child a law). Then you walk out of the room and leave the child with the present. What do you think the child will do? If they are like any normal child they will open the present, they simply can not resist. That is what the law did to us, it condemned us. Try as hard as we might, no one could keep every single law, they could not go without sinning. And the need to a yearly sacrifice attests to that under the law, even for those who kept the law blamelessly.
Romans also says that Christ is the end of the law for those who believe. It is the Spirit that quickens, it is the Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead that now dwells within us. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who have this Spirit within them. It is a Spirit that the world will not like, as a matter of fact, the true Spirit of God will be despised in this world (especially, sadly to say, in the "so called" churches).
It sounds like you are blaming parents for making their children bad by restricting their freedoms. Are you suggesting that if parents made no rules for their children that they would be angels? Did you raise your children without any discipline?
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All I am saying is what the Lord caused me to hear that day. I don't know what that has to do with real children and how I raise my real children. What I talked about above was totally spiritual.
We are not required to keep the law as they did in the Old Testament anymore, that was nailed to the cross. Jesus never mentioned keeping the Sabbath even one time and He did mention that other laws by saying we should love the Lord thy God with all our hearts. So that would include those other commandments you say He didn't mention like not making a graven image. It is a fact Jesus never mentioned the commandment about keeping the Sabbath, go read the New Testament it's not in there. If it's not in the New Testament that usually means we don't have to do it anymore, like tithing.
If we have the Spirit that raised Jesus in our hearts things have changed now. But of course the devil doesn't like that very much and will fight tooth and nail those who have chosen that.
The spiritual things given to us by God have a practical application. Can a person have faith without works? In other words, if I receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior then that will tell in my life.
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
What scripture says was nailed to the cross was the ordinances. Things like sacrifices, earthly priesthood, meat and drink offerings, the sabbath days along with the annual feasts, and yes, circumcision. It wasn't the Ten Commandments.
Circumcision was a huge issue that Paul dealt with many times. But we don't hear anyone ever arguing that the Sabbath or any of the Ten Commandments should not be kept. That is new in our day. The apostles upheld the Ten Commandments. Paul said that keeping the Ten Commandments fulfilled our love to our neighbor. You should have also understood this from Romans 13.
Jesus knew that his teachings and way of life would challenge the establishment and they would accuse him of breaking the law. That is why he clearly stated to the people in the sermon on the mount that, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Then he goes on to make it very plain that the law will continue until the very end of earth as we know it. "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." And, wasn't it the Sabbath that they accused him of breaking?
If you cast aside the Ten Commandments because you feel they have been nailed to the cross then you probably never have anything to confess as sin? Am I right? Paul wrote in Romans, "Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law." Then he tells us exactly which of the Ten Commandments revealed his sin of lust. But if we say we have no sin then we call God a liar. For Paul wrote, "All have sinned..."
Surely you do not think that now we can steal or lie or covet, correct? You must agree that the law is "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
But just so you understand the two laws that Paul was speaking of in Romans 7, let me add this. The law of "sin and death" is the law that says, "the wages of sin is death," and, so that we know what sin is, "sin is the trangression of the law." This is the law of sin and death: If we sin, we die.
The second law of the "Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" is life not death. If we keep the law and do not break it then we have the life. That is the second law. How do we keep the law? Again Paul explains, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us."
But just so you don't think I am teaching legalism, it is by receiving the life which is of Christ that we are able to fulfill the righteousness of the law, whereas, before we had sinned and "come short of the glory of God." See Romans 8:4, again. God sent his Son Jesus, so "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." Romans 3 has more to say about how we receive the righteousness of God by faith, not works. But the important thing to take note of is that we DO receive it--just not by our own efforts to keep the law, but rather by faith.
And how does faith work? Jesus told the lame man to take up his bed and walk. When the man applied his faith to stand his legs received strength. In the same way we are to receive the righteousness of God by faith. Jesus has already said we are healed through the apostle Paul. "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." So now we should choose to believe and recieve power to do the works that God has predestined us to do.
Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
So while we are carnal and the law is spiritual, we should strive to enter into the rest that Jesus provides by faith.
I will have more to say about resting in Jesus, if the Lord allows. Just not in this topic.
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