posted
Hello all, this is my first post here. I've not had the chance yet to really get into all the forums and read through the majority of the posts, but the few posts I have read prompt me to ask a question. This regards the whore. I've read it being used of the Roman church and others. I am assuming that the word whore is used in direct reference to the whore of Babylon in Revelation.
Why is this connection established and how? I've studied the Bible for years and have even read about the theories that the RCC is the whore of Babylon. I've heard it before and have never been offered even half-way reasonable evidence. Maybe now's my chance? It's only an issue for me because it seems a natural assumption here on this forum and I just want to be in the loop with you all.
posted
HDLacy, You may find the following site interesting - not that I agree with all they said... http://www.remnantofgod.org/whoreofbabylon.htm After a recent trip to Vatican, I must say RCC looks very much like a whore, if not the Whore.
posted
Looks to me, brother, to resemble unbelieving Judaism more than Rome. Certainly, it's not the institutional church (or IC) as opposed to some other kind of church, supposedly superior. The whore is not called a church - the church is the Bride of Christ. There is only one church. Entry is based upon Christ alone - not how one "does church."
I don't see the parallel either with the RCC but have no doubt that all sin has some symbolic association with the City of Man. As you know, Catholics and Protestants were at each other's throats for centuries and naturally applied the worst of terms to each other, just as perhaps in your Dad's day, Hitler was called the Anti-Christ and the Beast.
The new Jerusalem The heavenly Jerusalem The City which hath the foundations The City whose builder is God The Jerusalem which is to come The Jerusalem which is above The Jerusalem which is free The holy City The Bride
------------
The old Jerusalem The earthly Jerusalem The non-continuing City The City whose builder is man The Jerusalem which is now The Jerusalem which is beneath The Jerusalem which is is in bondage The wicked City The harlot
Wait, says one, it's called Babylon, is it not? Yes, it tis. Also, Sodom and Egypt were pseudonyms of J-town. There is a rich but sad history of God calling his people by those whom they imitated. Just the kind of thing one would expect in a symbolic book such as Revelation.
Yet, good, good things are eventually in store for the Jews when they return at last to their Lord. Romans 11:1ff. It's happening every day. Hope I live to witness the promised "life from the dead."
More to follow. My 2 cents for now, adjusted to inflation, leaving... little or nothing.
posted
i see it everywhere too. church and state. the eu in europe. an expressway from mexico to canada is in the plans. islamic prayers are broadcasted from loudspeakers in the usa. one world religion--why not ?
Note sure if the RCC acts alone as the Whore but am persuaded she will definitely be the top wrung of any one-world religion. There is no other religious leader so highly esteemed by mankind than the Pope. All pay him homage and tribute.
Just a side, but very interesting, note. The Holy See calls herself the Mother church (of course She would) and regards the Protestant denoms as daughter churches--presumably because they were 'born' out of her womb. Not many here would disagree that the multitude of denominations have certainly sold their birthright and embraced the world. Doesn't this make them harlots? Then doesn't this paint a nice picture of Revelation with the Whore as the Mother of daughter harlots? I think so.
Also, remember Revelation paints a picture of a first beast that was thought to have been destroyed and yet returns to life. (Rev 13) The whole world is amazed (wonders after the beast). Then a few verses later there is an image to the beast. This image must look a lot like the original beast. If the Papacy is the first beast then we know that the image of the Papacy will be a one-world religion with power to enact and enforce civil laws to both pronouce economic sanctions on "heretics" and put to death those who will not worship the image. This is a church-state, is it not? (Doesn't this sound like Daniel's friends experience in Babylon of long ago when they were put in the fiery furnace for not bowing down to the image?)
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As I understand it, a lot of the RCC tradition came from the Jewish Kabblah (sp.?) Babylon the false system was in effect before NT era. While RCC fits a lot of the language, 7 hills, mother church of harlot churches, I think all false systems of religion fit into Babylon. Whatever, and whoever it encompasses, we know it is the anti-christ system, the false, the worldly and we are not to be in it. Ultimately it is not just one false church; but all. IMO
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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Faith stated that in her opinion all false religious systems will comprise Babylon, and it seems it must be so. The Muslim religion is growing rapidly and is fairly disparate from Christianity. I've always wondered how the gap between Christianity and Islam will be bridged? If the economic sanction of Revelation 13 is against the whole world, such that no man might buy or sell unless he worships the beast, then there will at some point be cooperative effort between them (speaking of those that do not worship Jesus).
It just can't be simply a monotary issue because worship is called for. And there are just two groups in the end--the lost (those who worship the beast) and the saved (those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus) (see Revelation 14). Thus, the diversity we see among religious orders today must somehow be congealed.
There must be some strong agent that transcends their differences and binds them together to cooperate as one. Must be their hatred of those who keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus. There is evidence in Revelation 12:17 that the war started in heaven will be waged on earth (and is even now)--God promised enmity between the seed of the woman and the serpant. And then we have the final battle of Armageddon where the wicked are allied against the saints to destroy them.
(An aside: after reading Revelation 13 again I noticed that the faithful are killed for not worshiping the IMAGE of the beast but have economic sanctions imposed on them for not receiving the mark, or the name, or the number of the BEAST. So it would appear that the image is setup to honor the beast. Revelation 12 says the beast is Satan. Of course, he has always worked through people be it governments or institutions. This implies that there is a hierarchy.)
posted
This is a great topic For me, she is a fake bride. She has the FORM of a bride, but not the heart. One thing I take note of throughout the scriptures, man is always forever taking something that God has given, and building an image out of it.
Man is forever, taking what God said, what God did, or what God gave yesterday and ritual-izing it, imag-izing it, temple-izing, denominal-izing it. In every instance he is reshaping it "just enough" to make it conform to his flesh. It is a clean cup on the outside.
The recipe calls for a mixture that is just enough God so as to keep the original appearance, but God has long gone. She is riding the beast (the flesh). She thinks she has control over this religious flesh. But that is part of her deception.
What happens when the real thing (Christ), comes into proximity with religious flesh. It always seeks to kill Christ. Over the centuries, Christians have been beaten, imprisoned and murdered for not bowing down to the religious beast. When I look at history, if I see it correctly, I see the RCC doing plenty of the killing. Perhaps if it weren't for the present day laws against murder, it would still be the case?
God help us to get ready for what may be coming. In His love. Duane
I noticed in your post you likened the "beast," which the whore rides, to flesh. I'm sure you understand that although it is flesh the focus is not subjective but cooperative, correct?
Have you been reading some of the other material on this site? There is a lot more on the subject. I'll save you some research time... though I am sure you already know these things.
Since the other "beasts" in Daniel and Revelation represent kingdoms (nations) this reference to beast must also represent a nation (or perhaps united nations--a conglomeration/amalgamation of nations). The picture in Revelation aptly describes a church/woman ruling/riding over these united nations.
Think of a rider on a horse's back. The rider holds the reins which are connected to a bit in the horses mouth. This gives the rider great advantage over the will of the animal. Pull left you go left. Pull right you go right. Thus, the whore rides the beast. The church (religious body) controls the nations. The reins enable her to direct the head/leadership of those united nations. And, in our analogy, the body follows the head. So by leading the rulers of the nations this religious body rules the whole world.
What was Papal Rome but a church-state. What is described here but a church-state. The church dictates policy and the state enforces it. What has been at the forefront of discussion in America? I'll tell you. Whether or not our founding father's intended our United States to have a wall of separation between church and state.
Have you heard Newt Gingrich lately? (See http://www.Newt.org). I tell you, prophecy is true! It will happen no matter how hard we deny it. God knows the end from the beginning and has recorded it so that we might also know.
"Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he." -- John 13:19
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