quote:Originally posted by Bruce Woodford: Would the solution to those problems for Jews or Gentiles be found in UNION WITH ISRAEL, or IN UNION WITH CHRIST?
One is simply the consequence of the other, my brother. It is only in the minds of those who cannot discriminate between the real and the metaphorical that being in Christ and being in Israel's commonwealth are mutually exclusive. They are rather perfectly complementary.
(If we take everything literally we'll likely spend the rest of our days asking with Nicodemus, over and over and over: How can a man enter again into his mother's womb?)
For the record, the church is figuratively compared to many things which it is not. And for the record, I do not and have never maintained that the church and national Israel are the same.
This topic is about to outgrow its usefulness, imo. In other words, the page is becoming so large that it will gag users of dial-up connections. So, please make your final statements before it closes tomorrow.
The real issue here is that God made both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant with the houses of Israel and Jacob. This covenant was not made with Gentiles. The Gentiles were enabled to enter into the covenant with Israel when the walls of partition were broken down by Christ. The Jews are considered Israelites by birth but the Gentile believer became a fellowcitizen with them by virtue of their new birth in Christ. They became part of Israel by naturalization--because they were adopted into the family of God. This does not mean that the world should consider them to be Israelites. Nor should we consider that all natural born Jews are Israelites even though we may refer to them in this manner. The word Israel as used by God has special meaning just as "children of Abraham" has special meaning. Jesus did not consider all Jews as children of Abraham. As he said, "Ye are of your father the devil." "Ye go about to kill me. This Abraham did not." Men are bound by their own limitations. But God sees neither Jew or Greek. God reckons his own and calls them by his name.
Unfaithful Israel could not be the bride of Christ. The bride of Christ is pure. Natural Israel was unfaithful and was rejected by God as a nation. Their probationary time of 70 weeks alloted to them in Daniel 9:24 ended at the close of Jesus' ministry in 34 A.D. That is when the natural branch was broken off and the wild branch was grafted in.
Even though many people join themselves to the church they do not all comprise the family of God. There is a visible church made up of wheat and tares. Then there are the true church which only God can number. Just as God will not call a man just who is unjust, so God does not number among Israel those who are not overcomers. We overcome by faith, not by works. So the "freewoman's" children are of Israel, but the "bondwoman's" children are of works. The two do not share any inheritance. This is why the Gentile believers became fellowcitizens with Israel while the unbelieving Jew was left to his works. Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac were all examples of overcomers through a living faith (belief and works) in the promises of God.
Only those who overcome this world by faith in Christ will be called by the name Israel and become in truth the children of God. The natural Israel was not of promise but of the bondwoman and works. They never attained to the righteousness of God nor entered into his rest. But there are those who have and are now entering into God's rest. They are righteous by faith in Jesus. Only such will live and reign with God.
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
posted
I have nothing more to add but that we keep our eyes focused on things above, the new Jerusalem, the Israel of God (made of the grafted branches) and mostly on our Lord Jesus Christ.
May the Lord continue working and leading each person here into his wonderful truth.
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
posted
Hi All, All I would add in conclusion is that if, indeed, all Christians (Jews and Gentiles) are made Israelites and become part of Israel... then there is no distinction at all between Israel and the church.
Then the introduction of "the church" is simply redundant!
The Lord Jesus should have said, "I have been building and will continue to build my Israel" rather than "I will build my church."
We, as Israelites then, must keep the 7th day sabbath, practice 8th day circumcision of our male schildren and we must keep the annual passover as God has commanded Israel to do FOREVER. Whenever God commands a people to do something forever, He never changes His mind in mid-stream!
Also whenever God commands all men everywhere to do something, He also makes that clear. Just as He does when He commands one nation to do certain things.
But surely we must start to wonder how a singular "Israel" could ever become a plurality of "churches"! How there could be an "Israel" in Jerusalem and another over in Antioch and another in Ephesus and yet another Israel at Corinth etc etc! I guess that is just the 12 tribes scattered!
Well brothers and sisters, let us continue to search the scriptures whether these things are so.
quote:Originally posted by Bruce Woodford: Well brothers and sisters, let us continue to search the scriptures whether these things are so.
Amen to those words, Bruce.
And above all, though we may disagree here and there along the way, we positively do not regard the views of others as silly or absurd. Particularly when they are desirous to be led by Him as I know each of you is.
Somebody mentioned the other day that there was a courteous spirit in this Cafe. That's good, because as Jeff can testify, some of the ugliest talk on the internet has involved house churchers lashing out day after day, in times past.
For me, what I don't know is what I haven't yet been taught. So be patient. May all of us be teachable and then be taught of God. Remember? The flesh profits nothing - it is the Spirit who reveals.
I see that the forum program has automatically paginated this very long post into two pages. I am going to move it out of the current events/world news category after closing it, asap.
Email this page to someone.
