Radically Christian Cafe Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory log in | sign up | search | faq | recent topics | forum index
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
R C Cafe » Basic Issues » Church - What is it? » Wesley quotes Cyprian
 - Email this page to someone.    
Author Wesley quotes Cyprian
D Anderson
      Bristol, TN USA


 - posted      Profile for D Anderson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
(Cyprian was an early church father from the 200's)

How much do we almost continually hear about the Church! With many it is matter of daily conversation. And yet how few understand what they talk of! how few know what the term means! A more ambiguous word than this, the Church, is scarce to be found in the English language. It is sometimes taken for a building, set apart for public worship: sometimes for a congregation, or body of people, united together in the service of God.

It may be taken indifferently for any number of people, how small or great soever. As, "where two or three are met together in his name," there is Christ; so, (to speak with St. Cyprian,) "where two or three believers are met together, there is a Church." Thus it is that St. Paul, writing to Philemon, mentions "the Church which is in his house;" plainly signifying, that even a Christian family may be termed a Church.

John Wesley, Sermon 74

Faith



 - posted      Profile for Faith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How do we explain that fellowship is a private matter between believers and does not include the masses of churchanity? Seems the new age churches are stressing fellowshipping with all regardless of belief. There is a difference in respect and living peaceable with others (love your neighbors) and actually fellowshipping with other believers in the Lord. Because we seperate from the world, we are considered to be unloving. Because we seperate ourselves from false teachings, we are considered judgmental. Never mind the scripture never states we are to be unified with all men of all faiths; but that we believers are unified in Christ.

While it is true according to the scriptures, a family is a church, according to men a church must be made of many many people doing certain things according to the hearts and desires of men.

--------------------
1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

D Anderson
      Bristol, TN USA


 - posted      Profile for D Anderson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And isn't it remarkable that just about everyone can identify a family whether it has 2 or 22 members?

But if a church has a small number, murmuring usually begins and some critic will declare: Well, that's just, just not enough people for a real church.

Even in the house church circle are those who claim that unless there is or there was a "house church planter" then things are not authentic and are truly destined for failure.

Hmmmm.....

Fiesty today, ain't I?

Fred Anderson
      Richmond, In


 - posted      Profile for Fred Anderson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I believe that the way people are added to the body is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
John 3:3-5 shows the necessity of being "born again", by being born of water AND Spirit.
Romans 8: 9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom.14: 17. For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is NOT automatic with believing, as is shown in Acts
8: 12. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
14. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16. (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

The BELIEVERS were even BAPTIZED, but had not yet received the baptism of the Spirit, until the Apostles laid hands on them and then they received the Holy Ghost, in an obvious manner. WHAT WAS THAT OBVIOUS MANNER?

Acts 10: 43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48. And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19: 1. And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2. He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 2: 1. And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1 Cor.12: 12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14. For the body is not one member, but many.

We are added to the body of Christ by Holy Ghost baptism. We are merely disciples without the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The original plan of salvation of the New Testament church was, and remains, obedience to the gospel. The Gospel is defined in:

1 Cor. 15: 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

On the day of Pentecost, Peter preached two messages- 1st he preached the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ-the gospel. When the crowd heard the word, and was pricked in their hearts and asked, "men and brethren, what shall we do?' How are we supposed to respond to this gospel, good news of Jesus' substitutionary death? What should be OUR response? Peter told them how to respond to the death, burial, and resurrection-by OUR death, burial, and resurrection!
Acts 2: 37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Repentence is more than saying "I'm sorry, please forgive me" it is dying to self lordship, vowing to accept the lordship of Jesus in your life.
We are buried with Christ in baptism.

Rom. 6: 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17. But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Rom. 8: 9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ- OUR OBEDIENCE to the gospel repentence, baptism i Jesus name, and receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost or Spirit. Nothing has ever changed this truth. Traditions have changed, the RCC and the resultant Protestant reformation dropped this original plan of salvation, but the word of God never changed or replaced it. Please prayerfully consider this position.

--------------------
Acts 2:38-The Seal of Salvation

Rob Bleakney
      Worcester, MA


 - posted      Profile for Rob Bleakney     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I love this quote by Wesley! Does anyone have any others that might suggest what he'd think about the house church movement?

I don't think he'd care for the view that the love feast and the eucharist were one and the same, so much so that the eucharist as a distinctive practice should be dropped, or that the communion elements of bread and wine might readily be replaced by any other elements without a second thought.

But as I recall he did argue that in the early church the roles of bishop and presbyter were not distinct, and thus he as an Anglican priest had the same authority as a bishop to consecrate new (Methodist) bishops (such as Francis Asbury) to serve the pastoral needs of Methodists in the American colonies. This view seems similar, though not identical, to that of house church advocates who say that elders (=presbyters) were encouraged to oversee and pastor their flocks, and thus the seniority of elders was by natural age, whereas their pastoral oversight was of divine calling and service.

Wesley might be useful for further study by house church advocates, since his views in some ways seem both radical and traditional, and thus he could serve as a bridge between different groups of Christians. Cf. Howard Snyder's The Radical Wesley as one resource on this.

   

Quick Reply
Message:

 
Formatting Code


 


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
      
Hop To:
      


contact us | housechurch.org | privacy policy

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3