quote:So there are 5 people right there that I know who don't regularly attend church or don't attend at all which would probably say they get/take their church at home. Not home churchers in the purest sense, though.
Jeff, Hmm, and what is the purest sense? What exactly are the requirements?
Isn't the church made up of believers regardless of if they got kicked out of church, splintered from church, (Paul and others were run all the way out of town!)or too old and sick to travel to church?
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
True, the church is made up of ALL believers whether IC or HC. But that is not what we are trying to assess here. For statistical purposes the only fair representation must consist of those who were able to IC but made an intelligent and conscious decision to HC.
Otherwise, it's like grouping those who cannot afford to partake of health care with those who choose not to partake of traditional health care in preference to herbs, diet, and other preventative and remedial alternatives.
It depends on what trend you are trying to exact from the data.
Can you see how someone who cannot afford traditional health care might profess to prefer alternative medicines to save face when in reality they would love to be able to afford good medical care?
Our human traits can muddy the waters when it comes to certain types of statistical reporting.
quote:Truly, Christianity wasn't meant to be a private, underground sort of thing. We are to be salt, light, and a shining city upon a hill. Of the early Christians - though few - it was recorded that they turned the whole world upside-down. Acts 17:6.
That was then. Now we live in the end of the end times or at least 2000 years closer to the end. What of the underground church in China? It is growing but kept underground.
While so far, we are not arrested here for not being part of the OC, how far is that day? I read a book several years ago about the underground church here in US. Seems to be growing and yes it is underground. Some network and others don’t. Why is it going underground? Because of the persecution of the OC? Because of the political atmosphere toward bible believers? Because of the men who are prophesied to wax worse and worse? Because of the wolves who would come in to devour the saints?
The way is very narrow and few find it. Matt. 7:13-14. Jesus asks if there will be any faithful when he returns. (I forget the passage. Does someone remember the exact wording?) The church is often pictured as the small flock scattered among the world. Each of us is a light; but I don’t see the world being revived or turned upside down prophesied for the last of the last days. Rather just the opposite, a big falling away and a scattered few who remain faithful.
As for seeing growth myself, 20+ years ago, there was no one who did HC. We did for we couldn’t find a church organization true to God’s word and saw a lot of very wrong things going on. Gradually, we exposed this type error to others and talked of it. Passed out tracts asking folks to search their hearts about religion versus belief. Usually, we met with a bad reaction; but a few agreed. We began to see others leaving the churches. Others began studying for themselves. However, we have seen many trying to figure out the how to and the leadership to their detriment. The HC is growing in many homes. It is the networking and government that is struggling for all the baggage folks carry.
I think when we try to look for the kingdom of God as the salt and light upon a hill, we need to remember the kingdom of God is not physical ,but spiritual and in the hearts of men. There we will see the love and light of Christ. However, it is not the big glittery kingdom of the world which is easily seen. There are few who have found it.
However, I do wonder about folks here. There are 723 HC members here. And yet I could name only about 5-10 who have posted here over several years. Why don’t more talk here? Surely we could all praise the Lord and thank him for leading us out of OC to be alone with the Lord for a season., sprinkled and scattered just like salt, among the world but not of the world.
We are not meant to be gathered in bundles of HC ers; for then we would be just like the OC. We are salt, scattered in the world to season the world. Many of the true conversions in the Bible were done as a result of one on one interaction; not because of a big group event seen by all. I think the HC is growing by word of mouth one person at a time. Why must we want to group and poll and see them all in one place? Maybe they can’t be seen because they are busy living for Christ just where they are, at home, with their neighbor, in their job, in town, etc. However, an occasional word via this site or other means wouldn’t hurt but could exhort each other to continue on. I was grateful to find others here and on other sites who are also lone sprinkles of salt.
OC keeps the salt in the shaker. HC sprinkles the salt in the world.
IMO. So what is yours, anyone else?
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
"Hmm, and what is the purest sense? What exactly are the requirements? "
I would think the question, "Does any semblance of Acts 2:42 happen" would be an easily applicable critera. That's, "fellowship, breaking of bread, prayer, apostles teaching..."
If we just quit going to church, we aren't our own church. But if these four things happen occasionally with 2 or more, I'd call it church.
Since a shocking number of American so-called Christians don't pray or read the word in their homes (according to previous Barna surveys), then that is probably something to ask in any assessment - "Do you do these four things ever in anybody's house or anywhere else?" would about cover it.
That makes an easy answer to "Is it easy?..." an active thread elsewhere. By having our neighbors over and simply praying for any needs they might have, and telling them what God's word says about something or other, eating together (but saving actual communion for those who have committed to "The Way") we are introducing them to the Kingdom in a powerful way. Otherwise, we look exactly like our pagan neighbors.
quote:So there are 5 people right there that I know who don't regularly attend church or don't attend at all which would probably say they get/take their church at home. Not home churchers in the purest sense, though.
Jeff, Hmm, and what is the purest sense? What exactly are the requirements?
Isn't the church made up of believers regardless of if they got kicked out of church, splintered from church, (Paul and others were run all the way out of town!)or too old and sick to travel to church?
Faith
Hi Faith. Paul was run out of town by "the church." Read it. Wow! Maranatha! SEMPER FIDELIS! ben \o/
posted
Thank you, Laurie Ann, for you input. That is a good answer to Faith's question. But I did want to make sure I was understood on a few points. Sometimes we make too much of fellowship and come together to have a good time while forgetting the purpose of the church. In this sense we would be worshipping self rather than God. I'll try to explain.
There is scripture to indicate that some will have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. This to me sounds like someone who professes to be Christian and certainly has most all of the trappings of a Christian (perhaps, as you said, fellowship, prayer, breaking of bread, and apostles teachings) but does not manifest in their life the power of Christ that changes the creature into a new creation. Old things may not have passed away and all things may not have become new. Do you follow?
The main purpose of the church, in my mind, is for the edifying of the body of Christ to the end that they all come into the unity of the faith, and unto the knowledge of the Son of God, so we may refect the perfect character of Christ in our lives. In other words, to teach obedience to God by demonstrating His worthiness to receive honor and power. If this is not the main focus of the service then we have failed to have true worship.
Most of the five people I mentioned left the "body" to get away from something that was causing them discomfort. Hardly sounds like their motive was pure. So in this sense I deemed that theirs was not a home church in the purest sense--hoping, of course, that most people don't leave their churches because they can't get along with others but because they stood for the truth and were run out.
But remember, I've already explained that even the well intentioned can be misguided as I was in my early days when I withstood the minister. So we should be very careful that when we make a stance it is based on Biblical truth and not some other spirit.
quote:Originally posted by jqlogan: Thank you, Laurie Ann, for you input. That is a good answer to Faith's question. But I did want to make sure I was understood on a few points. Sometimes we make too much of fellowship and come together to have a good time while forgetting the purpose of the church. In this sense we would be worshipping self rather than God. I'll try to explain.
Hi, jq,
I'm not sure what about what I said you disagreed with here? Did I seem to make "too much of fellowship"?
I mentioned the 4 pillars of Acts 2:42, fellowship, breaking of bread, apostles teaching and prayer as being the distinctive of whether you are just a "church dropout" or a "house church".
All four are absolutely critical in order to call it the kingdom -- although perhaps not all four will take place every time we gather - a burden for prayer might fill the whole time once in a while for example.
Certainly, if we are "remembering the Lord's death" and spending time in the word, then worship of self could be avoided, even if the atmosphere is fairly relaxed.
Perhaps I should mention that for us, "'tis the other way 'round". Instead of only having specially designated kingdom meetings where we have a good time (as Simson says, "having a holy meeting at a holy place at a holy time with a holy person), we strive to make every gathering of people a "kingdom of God" time. I think that is the essence of what Jesus did and taught - God's word and principles are to challenge us day in and day out. We are to always be ready to exalt the Lord and testify, confess, repent...
So, for example, today we will have a "mom's pot luck" at Shepard's Gate. We won't gossip about movie stars or fashion. We will pray with those in need, challenge those who are in disobedience to God's word, sing praises with the children, model Titus 2 wifehood, and have an agape meal ( although we may not actually have formal communion - an area we are still trying to understand "how often" we should do). Most significantly, I was invited to this particular gathering because, "We're going to need some prayer warriors here. My guests are going through a difficult time."
As we do this, we are seeing dramatic instances of people "choosing life", making changes -- and us most of all! Including, as you referred to, learning to "press through" those awkward moments when our feelings are hurt, or we disagree!
Email this page to someone.
