When you quote 2 Thes. 2:8 -- "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" -- who do you say that "That Wicked" represents?
(BTW, don't miss my post above to your last question.)
Sorry, I used the wrong time line when posting before. It was this one that I was referring to.
quote: 1) Lord comes as King ---1st resurrection (dead in Christ) ---The resurrected and living raised to meet Jesus in the air ---Wicked slain and lay upon earth dead Rev 19:21 ---Birds eat flesh of men Rev 19:21 2) Thousand years begins ---Satan Bound ---Desolate Earth enjoys Sabbath rest ---Saints judge in heaven ---Those not raised in 1st resurrection remain dead 3) Thousand years ends ---2nd resurrection (the lost) ---Satan loosed for little time ---Deceives nations who attack New Jerusalem Rev 20:9 ---Fires come down from God out of heaven Rev 20:9
In the above time line you provided, you list Rev. 19 under point one at the second advent. You list the 1,000 years as point 2 which you see after point one. And then you list Rev. 20:9 under point three as after the 1,000 year period. Thus, it seemed to me you were saying there is a 1,000 year time between Rev. 19 and Rev. 20:9 which would make them chronologically listed in scriptures.
You seemed to be placing 1,000 years between when the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and when satan and everyone else is cast in. Now I see you actually place Rev. 19:19 & 20 1,000 years after verse 21. I see no gap in between those verses.
Notice in the passage Rev. 19:19-21 that the beast and kings of earth gathered to make war against Christ and his army, the saints. Then the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. Rev. 20 mentions that it is Satan who gathers the nations to battle and then he is cast into the lake of fire also to join the beast and false prophet. Then we see the rest of the wicked judged and cast into the lake. It is all the same time period. It happens when Jesus returns to the earth. He brings his reward with him for all.
Rev. 19:19-21 (KJV) And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. [20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. [21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Rev. 20:7-10 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev. 11:18 (KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Again we see the same time period, the nations angry (gathered to war) at the time of wrath and judgment of the wicked and reward of the saints. This was all the way back in Rev. 11. See the parallels in the various books?
As for Rev. 19:21 which you see as a different time from the wrath of God and casting into the lake of fire. I would ask you to look at it in a different light.
You said under your point one:
quote: -Wicked slain and lay upon earth dead Rev 19:21 ---Birds eat flesh of men Rev 19:21
First it does not say they lay upon the earth dead, only that they were slain with the sword that proceeded from his mouth. What sword comes out of his mouth? The word of God! (Ep. 6:17) . [21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Remember so much of Rev. is not literal!!!!!!! So what does the “fowls were filled with their flesh” mean? In looking in other passages, we can see that birds may represent unclean, hateful things that have filled the false churches (Babylon).
Rev. 18:2 (KJV) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful birds.
BTW, I see much evidence that Babylon is fallen today as she sure is full of devils, foul spirits and unclean hateful birds.
Matthew 13:4 (KJV) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Matthew 13:31-32 (KJV) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: [32] Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
We also see in the parable about the kingdom of heaven that there are “birds of the air” that lodge in the branches of the kingdom. In other passages, the church is mentioned as branches and Christ as the root. In Matt. 13:4 the fowls (representing satan) devour the seeds. Many passages mention the false teachers who creep in the church as wolves or in this case birds of the air. Air is important for satan is the prince of power of the air (clue to the identity of the birds of the air.)
Thus, in light of these and other passages about birds and fowl, I think we can see the fowls filled with flesh would represent the state of mankind at judgment rather than actual dead bodies being eaten by birds. The sword from the mouth or rather the word of God is the standard which judges these wicked men.
You asked me who I thought the wicked was?
See any similarity to 2 Thes. 2 and Isa. 14? Aren’t they speaking of the same being? Satan? . I see the son of perdition, who the Lord destroys when he comes as Lucifer regardless of whom he uses (the beast government or the false religious leaders).
2 Thes. 2:3-8 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Isaiah 14:12-14 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, jI will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
If we look up the word “wicked” in Strong’s 459, anomos, it means: lawless, not subject to (the Jewish)law; (by impl. A Gentile), or (pos)wicked:-without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
Thus, from the meaning of the word anomos, it could refer to a wicked Gentile or anyone who was wicked, lawless, a transgressor of law. I used to think it specifically meant Satan since it is capitalized. However, it is worded a bit odd, “that Wicked”. We know the Lord shall destroy all wickedness. Thus, is “that Wicked” referring to Satan as the wicked one ( Matt. 13:19) or to all that is wicked? It really doesn’t matter for both Satan and the rest of the wicked shall be destroyed by Christ at his return.
2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
In 2 Peter 3 “the works that are therein” refer to all wickedness which could include: Satan (the god of the world), the beast (government of world), the false prophet (false religious leaders), Babylon (false religion), and all wicked people.
Matthew 13:49-50 (KJV) So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, [50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Notice in Matt. 13 at the end of the world, the wicked are severed from among the just. This proves there is no 1,000 years between when the saints go up and the wicked go to the lake. They are there together at the end and then separated to receive their rewards.
There are many passages explaining it all happens quickly in a second at the return of Christ. Remember the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest. The sheep and goats are separated and rewards given at that time, some to life, others to depart to the lake of fire.
I must point out that you are wrong to consider 20:9 & 20:15 are the same incident because a. At 20:9 the nations were devoured by fire while they compassed the beloved city but at 20:15 the earth and the heaven fled away (20:11) when they were cast into the lake of fire. b. 20:13 indicated that all the wicked were dead and they were to stand before the great white throne for judgment before they were cast into the lake of fire.
How could you possibly equate "fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them" with "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"?
quote: 3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Some things I noticed here. 1) a falling away comes first (apostasy) 2) the man of sin is revealed 3) Revealed because exalteth himself about God and craves worship 4) The iniquity was already active in Paul's day (verse 7) 5) Something restains the Wicked in Paul's day 6) Lord destroys with brightness of his coming (not lake of fire at this time) 7) Not Satan, because his coming is "after the working of Satan"
Yes, he is Satan's agent, but not Satan. This Wicked is revealed before Christ comes and was active in Paul's day. It will be destroyed with the brightness of Christ's coming. "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:27. Again, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him." Revelation 1:7. Now that is pretty bright. One angel slew 180,000 men in one night. Two angels laid out the gaurds at Christ's tomb. How many angels make a cloud?
Lots of angel likened to clouds:
quote:Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
Psalms 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Jeremiah 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind.
That is pretty bright! The wicked cry for the rocks and mountains to fall on them.
In Rev 19 you see many literal fulfillments. Why not the birds eating the flesh of dead men laying upon the face of the earth? Verses 17 & 18 agree with verse 21. Now the birds can't feast on their flesh if they are burnt up at that time. Right? Do you then agree that the lake of fire consumes them root and branch and they are ashes? This would not allow for an eternally burning hell. How do you reconcile this?
quote:Do you then agree that the lake of fire consumes them root and branch and they are ashes? This would not allow for an eternally burning hell. How do you reconcile this?
Not sure what you are asking, do I agree with lake of fire consuming them root and branch? No. Christ is pictured as the root. The people are pictured as branches, some are cast off and burned, others stay on and others are grafted on.
I do not believe people burn for eternity; but believe they are burned up, destroyed completely in the lake of fire the second and final death. If you study all verses about hell, burning, reward of wicked, etc. you will see many passages supporting complete destruction and maybe one or two that could be considered eternal burning. The unquenchable fire only means a fire that can not be put out. It has to burn out on it's own when all fuel has been burned.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The way the passage is worded, it seems to me that verse 9 maybe talking about someone else other than that wicked in verse 8.
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Verse 4 seems pretty clear who it is talking about as it is almost word for word the same as Isa. 14. Also we must remember that antichrist is not a single person as commonly taught (the Antichrist); but is a spirit being (isn't Satan a spirit) which enters many. There are many antichrists now and in the past.
I'd like to think about this a bit more because I agree, it does seem to be as you say--almost. But something just isn't quite right.
I agree that the Bible teaches that wicked are finally destroyed. Root [their root is Satan] and branch [they themselves].
quote:Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Thanks for clearing up your question with Mal. 4:1. I had never considered the root mentioned in that verse as Satan; but rather the whole person, body and soul, completely destroyed.
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Faith, you said, "I had never considered the root mentioned in that verse as Satan; but rather the whole person, body and soul, completely destroyed."
Yes, you could be right as well. I have always interpretted the root to be Satan in this case since Jesus is the Vine elsewhere. We are always the branches. Branches need to receive sustenance from a root.
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I just finished this study related to the Satan bound issue and thought it might shed some new light on the subject.
"Who deceives Who?"
Since the world is such a wicked place with wicked men running to and fro doing the unthinkable, how could we possibly be ruling now? How could Satan be bound now? Isn’t he working over time deceiving people? Here are some answers from the scriptures that will surprise some of you and only confirm what others know. Please pray for spiritual discernment before reading these verses.
Here’s the verse that shows just where we are in Christ now.
Ephes. 2:6 (KJV) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
It is quite hard for our human minds to understand how we are in the world, but not of the world. We are living on the earth, but also sitting in the heavenly places in Christ. We rule now. We were told to occupy till he returns. The victors occupy not the loosers.
Luke 19:13 (KJV) And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
After the crucifixion of Christ he was raised and set at the right hand of God to rule. If we notice the next few verses of Ep.1:21-22 we see Christ is above all principality and power now and in the future. He has put all things, including Satan, under his feet!
Ephes. 1:20 (KJV) Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Ephes. 1:21-22 (KJV) Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: [22] And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
In Eph. 3 we see the mystery which was hid is not hid now. All men can see the mystery of Christ. The gospel is revealed so that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs in Christ by the gospel. Thus, men are not deceived by Satan. The Gentiles now have, since the cross, the access to the gospel truth.
Ephes. 3:4-6 (KJV) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) [5] Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; [6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
We know the world is full of wicked, sinful people. I believe this is the main reason people can’t see that Satan is bound. However, scripture teaches he is as a lion roaring seeking who he may devour, not who he may deceive.
Since men have access to the gospel and Satan is not deceiving them, just who are men deceived by? According to the scriptures: other men, themselves, false prophets, false Christs, sin, those that serve their own bellys, evil men and seducers, self, cunning crafty men, unruly, vain talkers, especially of the circumcision, those of the antichrist spirit. I did not see one verse that said the devil deceived anyone in the NT until Rev. 20.
Matthew 24:5 (KJV) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:11 (KJV) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:24 (KJV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 13:6 (KJV) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Luke 21:8 (KJV) And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Romans 7:11 (KJV) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Romans 16:18 (KJV) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
1 Cor. 3:18 (KJV) Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Galatians 6:3 (KJV) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Ephes. 4:14 (KJV) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ephes. 5:6 (KJV) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
2 Thes. 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Tim. 3:13 (KJV) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Titus 1:10 (KJV) For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they [/b]of the circumcision:[/b]
James 1:26 (KJV) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
1 John 1:8 (KJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
2 John 1:7 (KJV) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and[/b] an antichrist. [/b]
When was Satan cast down? At the cross. Rev. 12 confirms that Satan was cast down at the time salvation went out to the world.
Rev. 12:10 (KJV) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The only time scripture mentions Satan deceiving the people is in Rev. 20. If we examine the passage, we see, when Satan is loosed, he deceives the nations and gathers them together to battle. He doesn’t deceive them to live wicked lives on the earth; but specifically to battle the Lord and the Saints. Then God devours them.
Rev. 20:7-9 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Can you see that men deceive themselves because they love not the truth, they gather many false teachers to tickle their ears because that’s what they want to hear? God allows this and even sends them strong delusion, by loosing Satan, for they don’t love truth.
2 Thes. 2:8-12 (KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Men are without excuse. Men can’t blame the devil for their unbelief. They choose not to see, thus the Lord sends them a bigger delusion that leads them strait to Armageddon and then the Lake of Fire.
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Faith, I have been reading this thread. One thing I have seen is this, your understanding that Satan was bound when the "wicked one" was destroyed. You are incorrect there because the wicked one was not Satan. The wicked one is the antichrist, the mastermind of this great war. It was not Satan that was destroyed then but the final antichrist, a worse than Hilter type man. When the antichrist is destroyed Satan leaves him and goes elsewhere.
So when that great stone comes and smashes into the statue, as in Daniel's dream. The person the great stone destroys is the antichrist leading the war against Jerusalem and his army. That stone is Jesus.
So Satan is not bound today yet. His demons can possess people just like they did in the time of Jesus.
Please put aside all your preconceived ideas and do a search on the word antichrist. I also thought there was an Antichrist before I studied for my self. You will see it is a spirit not a person. In NT times the spirit of antichrist was already working and there were already many antichrists. Scripture never states there will be one man as the Antichrist. This is a teaching of men.
Jesus defeated Satan at the cross. Satan is bound now as a prisoner of war. Satan's is to be loosed just before the end to deceive the nations to gather them to war against God and the saints. That is the purpose of satan's deception.
Men deceive themselves and allow themselves to be deceived. They can't blame it on satan. There are many full of demons; but they have opened themselves up to demonic possession by their unbelief and love of unrighteousness instead of the love of truth. Don't have time to get into all the scriptures this minute but please check out scriptures with antichrist and also deceive, deceived, etc. I think you'll be suprised. I know I was on who is doing the deceiving. I showed many verses above on, that but check it yourself to see if you find Satan being blamed for deceiving the people any other time besides Rev. 20 in the NT.
Faith
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I have heard what you are saying. I was in a voice chat program on paltalk and I've listened for hours people saying what how you say it happens.
The antichrist is a spirit, but there is no where that is says it can not go into a person. Judas was a person it went into. Hilter was a person it went into. Can a spirit of antichrist do a physical thing like "sit"? I don't see anywhere that says the spirit of antichrist can not go into a real person also. I just don't understand where the people that say what you say, don't feel this spirit can go into someone?
Something is going on with this end time doctrine and I haven't quite figured it out yet.
What do you do about Rev. 3:10? Where it says we will be kept from the hour of temptation that will come upon the world to try it? Just interested.
I didn't say that the spirit of antichrist doesn't ever go into people. Scripture states it is a spirit and there are many antichrists (people with the spirit of antichrist). Thus, sure Hitler was an antichrist. Any one who is against Christ or worships another Christ could be considered antichrist. I just don't believe in the teaching so popular today of one person who is the Antichrist. We are told to watch, and look up for our reedemption draws nigh. We're to look for Christ to return for us; not sit around looking for the Antichrist.
a quote from one of my previous posts shows who I think antichrist is and who he enters.
quote:Verse 4 seems pretty clear who it is talking about as it is almost word for word the same as Isa. 14. Also we must remember that antichrist is not a single person as commonly taught (the Antichrist); but is a spirit being (isn't Satan a spirit) which enters many.
The hour of temptation to try the world is talking about judgment.
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
You said that you do not think God's people are called to go through His wrath. Well, in Revelations 16:1 it says And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. Now according to you this takes before everyone is taken, so if you go through this you are going through God's wrath.
I just think there probably are so very important things we are not understanding and I imagine there are some people that come through these message rooms and read these threads and probably just laugh at us. I don't know!!!!
The parable says Jesus returns from the wedding. So there has to be a wedding in order for Him to return from it.???????
I don't know anything about this and I'm not afraid to confess that I'm an idoit when it comes to end time prophecy. But I've always had a heart for God and as strange as it may seem, my hearts been right everytime.
Rev. 16:1-2 (KJV) And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. [2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Did you notice who is affected by the wrath in the passage you mentioned? Those who had the MOB and worshipped his image. And in verse 6 those who killed the saints and prophets----not God’s faithful-------but the wicked receive the wrath of God’s judgments.
Rev. 16:6-7 (KJV) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. [7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Notice that those who do not believe in Jesus do not receive everlasting life but receive the wrath of God. Believers are to be delivered from wrath because believers are not appointed to wrath.
John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 Thes. 1:10 (KJV) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thes. 5:9 (KJV) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
You may think you heart is right every time; but does it always line up with the scripture? It matters little what you think or feel unless it is in agreement with scripture. If you think what I have said is wrong please show me the scriptures that back up your feelings.
Faith
PS
quote: I just think there probably are so very important things we are not understanding and I imagine there are some people that come through these message rooms and read these threads and probably just laugh at us. I don't know!!!!
So why don’t you address these things? Why do you care if others laugh?
John 15:19 (KJV) If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Jude 1:18 (KJV) How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
-------------------- 1 Thes. 5:21 (KJV) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
<<< I just think there probably are so very important things we are not understanding and I imagine there are some people that come through these message rooms and read these threads and probably just laugh at us. I don't know!!!!>>> quote
The reason I said this is because one time I was told there is a group of people that know the truth but they are underground waiting for God to tell them the time to come out. LOL! I keep thinking they are sneaking around reading stuff, if they even exisit who knows!!!
Well, first of all I don't want to argue. What I want to do is put my head together with others and hammer out the truth. But I think there are a few issue that a person could do that with not just the end times. And I will be the first to tell you that I don't understand the end time prophecy at all.
First instance, in Daniel 9:24-27 we are told about the 70 weeks and we know they were filled according to II Chron. 36:21. But that was back when Cyrus was King of Persia. Daniel 9:25 suddenly brings that 70 weeks up until the time of Christ. So I get all lost. Believe you me I wish I could understand it. I think where most people get the idea of the 7 years is found in Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
Where I kind of get part of that from is Rev. 11:2 where it says the 2 witness prophesy for 1,270 days, which is 3 and 1/2 years. I have always taken that as the "midst" of the week mentioned in Daniel.
There has only been one place in the bible that I've been able to see something one time and that was in Daniel 7:21 and 22. I can kind of see something there as far as a time table.
Daniel 7:22,23 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
But then I believe there will be saints during this last week, but to me, I think not of the bride, those will be the servants.
And then you have that parable that says Jesus returns FROM THE WEDDING. What is that about? I mean a wedding means a bride, you have to wed the bride to have a wedding.
And what about that promise that we are promised that we will be kept from the hour of temptation that will come upon the earth to try it in Rev. 3:10.
And where else in God's Word do God's people go through His wrath, I mean not even the children of Israel in Goshen went through his wrath from the 3 plague on? And it even says Israel was awhoring in Egypt already, maybe that is why God allowed them to go through the first 3 plagues?
One time, not very long ago I met someone in person from online. He told me that his mentor in the Lord told him to go read Matthew 24 until he understood it. He said he did and he could see it, but I just don't yet. Maybe I can't see it because it's not there?
This is what I know for a fact:
1)There is going to be a gathering unto the Lord and some will not be dead I Corth. 15:51 2)It is called the "day of Christ" II Thess. 2:2 3)There first must be a falling away II Thess. 2:3 4)The son of perdition must be revealed II Thess. 2:3
1)There is going to be a gathering unto the Lord and some will not be dead I Corth. 15:51 2)It is called the "day of Christ" II Thess. 2:2 3)There first must be a falling away II Thess. 2:3 4)The son of perdition must be revealed II Thess. 2:3
And that is all I know about it for sure."
Good!
Now read the previous chapter and find out when the Lord promises our rest from trouble. You'll find the answer right in the words of scripture!
Then read two parallel passages: I Cor.15:50-58. Notice the timing of this great event, "at the last trump".
Also I Thess.4:13-18 and all of chapter 5.
These passages are all in perfect harmony with Matthew 24.
Read also Romans 8:21-23 and notice the expression "the redemption of our body".
Luke 21:28 tells us when we can expect that redemption!
I trust as you search the scriptures, the Lord will bring clarity to your understanding of our future as believers.
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There seems to be about as many different interpretations of Biblical prophecy as there are intrepretors. And what controversies they have caused! There is only one way to know for sure who is right- wait for the predicted events to happen in due course. Then the arguements will end. If a person is willing to watch and wait until events unfold, then maybe everyone can get together on the same page and be a witness to the world instead of confusing chatter. Until then- it is all speculation. One's interpretation is another's heresy. So to add fuel to the fire, I am including in this reply my favorite scenario. It can be read at: http://www.grandunifiedprophecies.blogspot.com/ When the Final Treaty is signed, then I believe we will start to see events unfold- just as predicted! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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You think adding fuel to the fire is fun... Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
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I feel certain that the reply of Orates was not intended to bring idle words to our Cafe. Quite the contrary. He is just employing a figure of speech as biblical writers frequently did, as well.
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That's not what I meant neither. What I'm saying is, we all have to be responsible for how we share our understanding of the Bible with others. Yes, to share rather than to teach, in order not to receive the greater condemnation - James 3:1
Email this page to someone.
