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R C Cafe » Lord's Supper » Who May Eat and Drink? » Orthodox & Catholic Christians at Protestant-led Lord's Supper
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Author Orthodox & Catholic Christians at Protestant-led Lord's Supper
Rob Bleakney
      Worcester, MA


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Orthodox and Catholic Churches prefer that their members not celebrate eucharist in Protestant churches, and this would surely include house churches, even those intended to be nondenominational or interdenominational.

It would be wonderful if we could find a way that all of us could worship the Lord together, like the monks in Taize, France, but in the meanwhile it's awkward if one wished to invite Orthodox and Catholic Christians to be part of a house church gathering that included a celebration of the Lord's Supper at which they did not feel free to partake. But perhaps they could be invited to return with a priest from their church, who could then bless the elements for his own parishioner(s), and then that person(s) could partake.

Have any of you come across this situation before? How did you handle it?

It seems to complicate the idea of an interdenominational Christian love feast/eucharist.

chubbena
      canada


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Let's put aside the difference and focus on what we believe in common, right? It's just that breaking bread in remembrance of Him is not one of those in common among denominations, much less with house church. I believe Billy Graham or Rick Warren may have a solution though.

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My Father speaks to me in OT too and I see Him everyday.

Rob Bleakney
      Worcester, MA


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Could you please clarify? What solution might Billy Graham or Rick Warren have re Orthodox and Catholic Christians sharing the Lord's Supper with (or at the same time as) Protestants?
chubbena
      canada


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Rob,
They, along with Robert Schuller, Jack Van Impe and some others may have the solution since they are for ecumenical movement. Within those against the movement, more than a few consider RC the Anti-Christ so why would they even consider sharing the Lord's Supper with them? Just my opinion.

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My Father speaks to me in OT too and I see Him everyday.

agnusdei
      Diocese of Tucson


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Firstly, as a Catholic, why would I want to share a table with someone who considers me to be a son of the Whore of Babylon? Just sharing an internet site is scary enough!

Secondly, communion in non-Catholic churches is not licit.

And thirdly, by receiving communion in a Catholic Church I am not only receiving Jesus Christ, Body, Blood, Divinity and Soul in the Holy Eucharist, I'm also reaffirming my belief and loyalty to the teachings of Jesus Christ as
taught by the Catholic Church. Since I don't agree with any other teachings others than those taught by the Catholic Church I'm not going receive communion in any other church than a Catholic Church. Since most people around here probably don't believe fully in the teachings of the Catholic Church, I doubt anyone would want to receive in a Catholic Church. Besides, a non-Catholic receiving communion in a Catholic Church would be guilty of idol worship since by receiving they would be affirming a belief in Catholic teaching which would contradict the belief that the Eucharist is only symbolic piece of bread. If that were true, any non-Catholic receiving communion in a Catholic Church would be guilty of worshipping a piece of bread!

God bless you all,

Agnus

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"In the evening of life, we will be judged on love alone." St. John of the Cross

D Anderson
      Bristol, TN USA


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Agnus, if you're so devoted to Catholic teachings, what brings you to this outpost? Are you recruiting?

Personally, I wouldn't belong to any organization which is in the process of paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in sexual molestation lawsuits. That's a big red flag as far I am concerned. Something there is way wrong.

May the Lord lead you in his paths. David Anderson

agnusdei
      Diocese of Tucson


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Hi Dan,

I've been hanging out in an inter-denominational forum and had one of my first experiences with a HCer. She tended to be heavy handed with scripture and wrote with a lot of capital letters and exclaimation points. Her and her husband had a HC. The thing I remember most about her is the amazing lies she told about me. It was my first experience with something like this. Recently she's had some sort of mental breakdown and hasn't been posting. I'm here mostly out of a concern for her. I'm wondering if it's something about HC that drove her crazy. Anyway, pray for your sister and brother, their marriage is in trouble as well as their family and one of your HCs.

Thanks for your comments on my Church. I joined the RCC during the height of the priest child-abuse scandal. I had some lively conversations with the Lord about it. The Lord clearly told me the Catholic Church is the one Church establishes by Christ, so that's where I needed to be. Jesus said "the gates of hell will rise against you....". Seems fairly relevant these days as in days past.

I don't look at the Judas's of the Church, I look at the other 11 apostles that have been faithful to the Bride of Christ. The tendency to look at the negatives seems to be a common HC trait to me. Bitter fruits from the tree of bitterness.

The Catholic Church, in spite of a handful of deviant priests, continues to grow. In my community the RCC owns/operates 2 hospitals, a clinic for the poor, a St. Vincent de Paul society which offers food and utilities assistance to the poor as well as 20 something other charitible organizations.

How many hungry mouths has HC fed in Tucson this week? Probably none. From what I can tell from the registries I've visited, HC in Tucson is non-existant. Your not doing a very good job spreading the love of Christ. You seem to be more about hating the IC's instead of loving God. The Holy Spirit is telling me something is way wrong with house church. A good tree won't bear bitter fruits.


Pax Christi,

Agnus

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"In the evening of life, we will be judged on love alone." St. John of the Cross

chubbena
      canada


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Agnus,
quote:
....I don't look at the Judas's of the Church, I look at the other 11 apostles that have been faithful to the Bride of Christ. The tendency to look at the negatives seems to be a common HC trait to me.
It's amazing you said that after you mentioned the HCer in your 1st paragraph and that you used "Judas" to describe your brothers in RC. Likewise, I'm wondering if it's something about RC that drove those child-abusing priests crazy.
quote:
The Catholic Church, in spite of a handful of deviant priests, continues to grow
If growing is an indication of true church then Muslim is the way to go.
quote:
How many hungry mouths has HC fed in Tucson this week? Probably none.
You don't see any HC feeding the hungry - it's probably true. What's the name for those who do good deeds to be seen in the Bible?
quote:
I had some lively conversations with the Lord about it. The Lord clearly told me the Catholic Church is the one Church establishes by Christ, so that's where I needed to be.
When did you talk with Benedict? Is he well?
quote:
The Holy Spirit is telling me something is way wrong with house church.
Is the Holy Spirit telling you that those churches in the book of Acts and Romans are wrong too?
quote:
Since most people around here probably don't believe fully in the teachings of the Catholic Church, I doubt anyone would want to receive in a Catholic Church
That's obvious. But it doesn't mean that no one ""knows"" fully the teachings of the RC here.

--------------------
My Father speaks to me in OT too and I see Him everyday.

agnusdei
      Diocese of Tucson


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Hello Chubenna,

Thank you for your comments and questions.

quote:

....I don't look at the Judas's of the Church, I look at the other 11 apostles that have been faithful to the Bride of Christ. The tendency to look at the negatives seems to be a common HC trait to me.

It's amazing you said that after you mentioned the HCer in your 1st paragraph and that you used "Judas" to describe your brothers in RC. Likewise, I'm wondering if it's something about RC that drove those child-abusing priests crazy.

It’s not that amazing. Judas was one of twelve apostles. The sister in question would be one of one HCers with whom I have had contact. There is no comparison. I don’t see her as a Judas. I see her as a Peter. She’s stumbling. Being a wife and a mother of three and leading HC in her home has got to be terribly difficult and in the heat of summer would be enough to drive a person crazy, especially if you were mentally unstable enough to ascribe to HC doctrine. The small percentage of child-abusing priests (much less that one in twelve) didn’t become that way because of their vows or because of the Church. Getting married didn’t turn me into a adulterer and becoming Catholic hasn’t turned me into a pedophile. Child abusing priests had that problem before they joined. Like I said, “the gates of hell shall rise against you…” HCers are awfully fond of quoting that verse to jusify their own perceived persecutions.

On another note, like I said the percentage of Catholic priests accused of molesting children is close to the number of adult males that molest children. Are you proposing that there are no child molesters in HC?


The Catholic Church, in spite of a handful of deviant priests, continues to grow

If growing is an indication of true church then Muslim is the way to go.

I’m sure we won’t be hearing anymore reports of 120 million Chinese peasants converting to HC then. Besides, do you really care to compare the growth of the Christian Church to the growth of the Mohammedan heresy?

quote:

How many hungry mouths has HC fed in Tucson this week? Probably none.

You don't see any HC feeding the hungry - it's probably true. What's the name for those who do good deeds to be seen in the Bible?

Your making the assumption we’re doing good works to be seen.

quote:

I had some lively conversations with the Lord about it. The Lord clearly told me the Catholic Church is the one Church establishes by Christ, so that's where I needed to be.

When did you talk with Benedict? Is he well?

This is a really bizarre question. First of all I think your saying I’m equating someone name Benedict with the Lord which of course would be idolatry and a violation of the First Commandment. Presuming from your anti-Catholic prejudices I would guess you’re talking about Pope Benedict XVI which again would be wrong since John Paul the Great was pope when I converted to the One True Church. I’ve never had the privilege of meeting Papa Benny but it seems like his health is holding up. In fact, he looks great.

quote:

The Holy Spirit is telling me something is way wrong with house church.

Is the Holy Spirit telling you that those churches in the book of Acts and Romans are wrong too?

No, He told me those churches in the book of Act and Romans are the same Church that I am worshipping in today. And you know what else? He revealed to me that those guys who wrote down the gospel were worshipping in the same Church that I’m worshipping in today. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sin the resurrection of the dead and life everlasting. Amen

quote:

Since most people around here probably don't believe fully in the teachings of the Catholic Church, I doubt anyone would want to receive in a Catholic Church

That's obvious. But it doesn't mean that no one ""knows"" fully the teachings of the RC here.

Hmmm. Anyone who fully knew the teachings of the Catholic Church would be have to be Catholic….and probably a Doctor of the Church. I haven’t ‘seen’ anyone who fits that description on this website. I’ve run into some pretty astounding ignorance however….and some outright myths.

Just to get this thread back on track, any self respecting Catholic wouldn’t want to receive communion at one of your phoney-baloney communion services. “Take this grape juice and primavera pasta all of you and eat it…………..” Give me a break.

In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,

Agnus

--------------------
"In the evening of life, we will be judged on love alone." St. John of the Cross

chubbena
      canada


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Agnus,

Don't thank me unless you benefit from what I said and come to understanding.

HC doctrine - is it one of the many assumptions and presumptions from you or your fathers?

Child abusing RC priests - yeah the percentage is low so let's live with it. Amazing is those child molesters were able to slip through the sanction of RC and became "fathers". So much for the Holy See.

HC growth in China - so I guess the growth is bigger than RC's or the Muslims. So you are saying they are the real thing then?

I was just saying doing good works doesn't have to be seen.

"The Lord told me" is also one of the punch lines those TV preachers uses. Does it make whatever they say true?

Pope is the Vicar of Christ - I thought you knew. The Lord speaks through him to the lay RCs. Does this understanding make one anti-catholic?

Churches in the book of Acts and Romans are the same church you are worshipping today - a spirit was sent to Ahab so I don't doubt another one was sent to you.

It takes a doctor to know a doctor - I don't blame you for not seeing one here.

Back on track - any true Christian knows better than to worship with RC. I still don't see why you are here.

--------------------
My Father speaks to me in OT too and I see Him everyday.

D Anderson
      Bristol, TN USA


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These conversations tend to go downhill, do they not? This is the reason we cannot indefinitely deal with those of every sect and cult, particularly those that are obviously here to teach only and not to learn.

A house or even an internet Cafe divided against itself cannot stand. So true. Yet our words are not in vain - other would-be-teachers from Rome will be less likely to disturb us, methinks.

Before the thread's deadline arrives I would like to share an old, old source, one John Milton. The language is ancient but the message that every true Christian is just as holy as any pope, still rings true. Give it a try and see if you cannot wade through. I did and was blessed for it.

quote:
And this all Christians ought to know, that the title of 'clergy' St. Peter gave to all God's people, till Pope Higinus and the succeeding prelates took it from them, appropriating that name to themselves and their priests only; and condemning the rest of God's inheritance to an injurious and alienate condition of laity, they separated from them by local partitions in churches, through their gross ignorance and pride imitating the old temple, and excluded the members of Christ.

For we have learned that the scornful term of laic, the consecrating of temples, carpets, and tablecloths, the railing in of a repugnant and contradictive mount Sinai in the gospel, as if the touch of a lay Christian, who is nevertheless God's living temple, could profane dead Judaisms, the exclusion of Christ's people from the offices of holy discipline through the pride of a usurping clergy causes the rest to have an unworthy and abject opinion of themselves, to approach to holy duties with a slavish fear and to unholy doings with a familiar boldness. For seeing such a wide and terrible distance between religious things and themselves, and that in respect of a wooden table and the perimeter of holy ground about it, a flagon pot and a linen corporal, the priest esteems their layships unhallowed and unclean, they fear religion with such a fear as loves not, and think the purity of the gospel too pure for them, and that any uncleanness is more suitable to their unconsecrated estate.

But when every good Christian, thoroughly acquainted with all those glorious privileges of sanctification and adoption which render him more sacred than any dedicated altar or element, shall be restored to his right in the church, and not excluded from such place of spiritual governments his Christian abilities and his approved good life in the eye and testimony of the church shall prefer him to, this and nothing sooner will open his eyes to a wise and true valuation of himself, which is so requisite and high a point of Christianity, and will stir him up to walk worthy the honorable and grave employment wherewith God and the church hath dignified him; not fearing lest he should meet with some outward holy thing in religion which his lay touch or presence might profane, but lest something unholy from within his own heart should dishonor and profane in himself that priestly unction and clergy-right whereto Christ hath entitled him.

Then would the congregation of the Lord soon recover the true likeness and visage of what she is indeed, a holy generation, a royal priesthood, a saintly communion, the household and city of God. And this I hold to be another considerable reason why the functions of church government ought to be free and open to any Christian man, though never so laic, if his capacity, his faith, and prudent demeanor commend him. And this the apostles warrant us to do. But the Prelates object that this will bring profaneness into the church; to whom may be replied that none have brought that in more than their own irreligious courses, nor more driven holiness out of living into lifeless things.

From The Reason of Church Government, 1642. Milton, you know, was an English poet and scholar who is best known for the epic poem Paradise Lost (1667).

Will somebody please change the channel? Thank you.
Dan 1
      Canada


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Hi
We could invite the Protestants to attend the Catholic Mass. Then the Catholics could partake in the Mass. The Protestants could come for the service and fellowship. The reason being the Catholics believe in the true presence of Christ
the Protestants do not.

Lahry
      Arizona


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Excuse me Dan, but all true believers are the dwelling place of God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Speaking the truth in love,

Lahry

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http://whosoeverwill.ning.com

Rob Bleakney
      Worcester, MA


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I've heard that in China, Catholics worship underground using illegal house churches; and that in some parts of Africa, Catholics worship in private homes. For example, in Ghana, Catholics sometimes worship in one home one week, then go to another home the next, with gatherings often in courtyards in the center of homes (I am not saying that all Catholics in Ghana worship this way).

For both Catholics and Orthodox, an altar is a part of the eucharistic celebration, and some may hesitate re using an ordinary table in celebrating the eucharist, though this was the practice of early Christians.

   

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