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Jeff Logan  - posted
I thought this was very interesting and that I would share it.

Have you ever notice that whenever someone tries to explain the book of
Revelation it seems someone else always stands up to point out that no one
can fully understand it. But the very first verse in Revelation clearly says
that this book is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent
and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." It is a revelation of
Jesus Christ given to us through Jesus, through angels, through John.

Why is this so important? Well, those who are deceived into worshipping this
beast will not inherit eternal life. Rev 13:4 says they worship the dragon.
Verse 8 says that those who worship the beast are those who do not have their
names written in the book of life. Rev 14:10 says that those who worship the
beast or his image or receive his mark will suffer the wrath of God by fire
and brimstone. But, because God does love us as a Father He warns us not to
be deceived.

Read with me each verse of chapter 13 and notice the characteristic of this
beast in each verse. Then, write them down just as I have here. (The second
beast, called "another beast," begins in verse 11. Stop your list at verse
10, but read the entire chapter so that you get an idea of what the second
beast does regarding the first beast.)

The Traits, Marks, Signs of the Beast

1a - Rises up out of the sea
1b - Has seven heads and ten horns
2a - Composite of a leopard, a bear, and a lion
2b - Dragon gives beast his seat, power, and authority
3a - Suffers a deadly wound which later heals
3b - Whole world wonders [marvels] the beast is alive
4a - Those who worship beast really worship the dragon
4b - No one able to make war with the beast
5a - Has a boastful and blaspheming mouth
5b - Allowed to continue for 42 months
6 - Blasphemes God, His name, tabernacle, and heavenly beings
7a - Makes war with the saints and overcomes them
7b - Has power over all kindreds, tongues, and nations
8 - Followers names not written in book of life
9 - Those who have ears to hear will be warned
10 - Shall go into captivity and be killed by the sword

Okay, that is our list. It may not be complete. You may notice others I have
missed but lets look at some of these. Do you agree that we have not found
the beast unless all of these descriptions fit? If we find that two or three
fit someone or something really well but just one other does not fit, then we
have to look further. Right?

Now we can begin to unlock the mystery of the symbols contained in the
verses. Let's look at each of these in turn. You will see for yourself!

1a - Rises up out of the sea

The question is this, what is meant by the word sea? See Rev 17:15 And
he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are
peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

1b - Has seven heads and ten horns

Notice at this time that this resembles the picture of the dragon in Rev
12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red
dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Also, see Dan 7:7,20, and 24, where horns are mentioned again. Verse 24 tells
us what the horns might represent: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are
ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall
be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

2a - Composite of a leopard, a bear, and a lion

Notice that all three of these beasts, the leopard, the bear, and the
lion are found in Daniel 7. The dreadful and terrible beast follows these
first three.

2b - Dragon gives beast his seat, power, and authority

This will be a very important clue as it tells us when the beast comes
onto the scene. Power is passed from the dragon to this beast. The dragon
power gives the beast his seat, his power, and his authority. So now I want
to know this: Who is the dragon? Rev 12:9 tells us that the dragon is "that
old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world."
Chapter 13:4&5 describes the dragon as standing before the woman who is ready
to give birth to a man child, a ruler, who is caught up to God's throne.

3a - Suffers a deadly wound which later heals

The deadly wound must come at the end of the 42 month period in which the
beast reigns over the world (every kindred, tongue, and nation). Rev 13,
verse 14 verifies that the first beast does indeed suffer a deadly wound by a
sword. Rev 13:14 And [the second beast] deceiveth them that dwell on the
earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of
the [first] beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should
make an image to the [first] beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did

3b - Whole world wonders [marvels] the beast is alive

I believe this means that the world is stunned that the beast is not dead
but rises to power again -- aided, by the way, by the second "another" beast
in verse 11 of chapter 13.

4a - Those who worship beast really worship the dragon

Satan is behind every false system of worship.

4b - No one able to make war with the beast

Who would dare make war with this beast?

5a - Has a boastful and blaspheming mouth

What is blasphemy? I would like to know how the Bible defines it. See
Mark 2:5-7 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy,
Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting
there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak
blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? So a man who claims to be
able to forgive sins blasphemes. (Of course Jesus did not blaspheme as He is

5b - Allowed to continue for 42 months

Notice that a Biblical month is 30 days and that 42 months is equivalent
to 1260 days. Also, that same time period is equal to 3 1/2 years. There is
good reason to believe that this prophetic time refers to a "day for each
year" as seen in Ezekial 4:6, and Numbers 14:34. As this unfolds we will be
able to verify whether or not it is literal days or prophetic years. Evidence
leans toward a non-literal interpretation given the volume of symbolism
appearing in this chapter.

6 - Blasphemes God, His name, tabernacle, and heavenly beings

What else is considered blasphemy in the Bible? See John 10:30-33 [Jesus
said,] I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone
him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father;
for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a
good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being
a man, makest thyself God. So for a man to make himself out to be equal with
God is blasphemy. (Of course Jesus did not blaspheme as He is God.)

7a - Makes war with the saints and overcomes them

This implies the shedding of martyrs' blood as witnessed by Re 17:6 And
I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of
the martyrs of Jesus.

7b - Has power over all kindreds, tongues, and nations

This suggest a world power that rules nations. We can see the type of
rule this beast exercises by looking at the description of the second beast
in chapter 13. Notice that the second beast 'exerciseth all the power of the
first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to
worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.' Rev 13:12. In verse
15 and 16 we are told the style in which he rules: 15 And he had power to
give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should
both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the
beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich
and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
foreheads. This is a persecuting power which does not tolerate the free
exercise of worship but rather commands men to worship himself or be killed
or suffer economic sanctions.

8 - Followers names not written in book of life

Don't think of predestination here, else, why give the warning at all?
Rather, think of those who take the easy, broad path that leads to
destruction because they did not cultivate a love for the truth. They did not
seek after the truth to know it and therefore they built their house upon the
shifting sand.

9 - Those who have ears to hear will be warned

This also means that if you will hear then God will give you the
understanding to comprehend. This admonition is repeated over and over in the
book of Revelation. Only the humble will receive grace. The proud -- those
who know it all -- will not learn anything because they refuse to hear it.

10 - Shall go into captivity and be killed by the sword

We will show that this beast lead other into captivity and killed them by
the sword. But whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Therefore,
the same sword used by the beast will be used against the beast and he will
go into captivity and die there. We will show this later.

This is the first part. We will try to go deeper next time.


Jeff Logan


JeffL  - posted
While reading James 3 again my attention was drawn to verse 3 quoted here.

3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
James 3:3 (KJV)

Then my mind was drawn to Revelation 17 and verse 3. Do you see anything similar about these two verses?

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast
Rev 17:3 (KJV)

Consider this just for the sake of contemplation. What if the 'beast' were a horse. What then would be the significance of a someone sitting upon it? Think of James 3. Someone on horseback puts a bit in the horse's mouth so that they can lead the horse wherever they please.

Now seriously consider the relationship of the beast in James 3:3 and that in Rev 17:3. These are the thoughts I had.

1. A woman sits on the beast
2. Riders usually place bits in the beast's mouth
3. A very small bit allows even a small person to control a large, powerful beast
4. With a small bit we can control the head and in turn the whole body of the beast

Obviously, the language employed in Rev 17:3 is symbolic of some greater truth that God is trying to impress upon our minds. So I tried to think of how scripture had used the various words in other passages in hopes of finding a clue. I came up with this. See what you think.

God often refers to his church as a woman, a bride. What if we replace the word 'woman' with 'church' in Rev 17:3.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a [church] sit upon a scarlet coloured beast... --Rev 17:3 (KJV)

What about beast? A quick search revealed four beasts in Daniel 7. These seems to parallel the four kingdoms mentioned earlier in the book. So I decided to substitute kingdom (or nation, a more modern term) in the place of beast to see what it looked like.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a [church] sit upon a scarlet coloured [nation]... --Rev 17:3 (KJV)

But it still seems a bit lacking. The next word I used was scarlet. That wasn't as easy. But I noticed just a few verses later that the woman was "drunken with the blood of the saints." Wow! Blood is red. And surely it would be difficult not to get some splash on you if you are gorging yourself on blood. Hence, scarlet colored. But since it didn't substitute well I altered it a bit to fit in. I thought, what is the action spoken of here? Oh, persecution. Check it out now. Pretty amazing!

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a [church] sit upon a [persecuting] [nation]... --Rev 17:3 (KJV)

Double Wow!! This seems to be talking about a relationship between church and state. I am quite a church history buff so I am thinking to myself, whenever the church ruled over the state (Rome, England, Spain, America) it always resulted in bloody persecution of those who were considered heretics. Wow! Wow! My mind was suddenly drawn to the controversy now raging in America regarding the relationship which the founding fathers established between church and state.

Now I can see it! A small bit turns the head and the body follows. If the church controls the head of state then the whole body (nation) can be turned to the left or right simply by controlling the head. What does the bit represent? What leverage could the church use to gain control over the state? What about some catastrophe like flooding, hurricanes, fires, or economic disaster? The church could step in like a savior blaming greed and vice. They could offer their services to bring the nation back into favor with God. It's one plausible scenario.

Wow!!! I can hardly contain myself. The thoughts are coming so fast. Is this verse talking about a union of church and state? Where? I'll have to study out 'wilderness' some more to find that answer. But it seems to be somewhat global with the mention of the "kings of the earth" committing fornication with her (verse 2) and ten kings who receive power with her (verse 12). Maybe this has something to do with the persecuting power in Rev 13. That power makes laws to kill anyone who doesn't receive the mark. Maybe the wilderness is some remote area or symbolic of a clandestine meeting. I think, whatever it is, it represents the starting place. The kings come in later to rule alongside this power which, in my mind, turns it global. Certainly, economic disaster can now have global impact.

I wonder...can a global economic meltdown cause men's hearts to fail them for fear of what is coming?

[Additional note: We can see from the context that the 'church' is not the true body of believers but is an unfaithful church-like system. She is a 'whore' and has harlot daughters. The picture is that of a bride who has 'slept' around (fornicated) with men other than her spouse.]
Laurie Ann  - posted
These are some great thoughts, Jeff. I'll ponder them and get back to it.
JeffL  - posted
Some more thoughts. The G7 (not to be confused with the G8) is a group of financial gurus from seven industrial countries who meet to discuss economic polices that effect the world. It consists of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, United Kingdom, and United States of America. There are a few prominent countries missing in that group. Russia, and the emerging giant China. If these two countries joined then the group would become the G9 (or, Group of Nine). Russia is already a member of the G8.

What does all this have to do with observations about Revelation? Well, I was contemplating the Ten Horns of Revelation 17, verses 12-13, quoted here.

  • Revelation 17
    12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Since we've already read about seven head and seven kings in verses 9 and 10, I was wondering if the ten horns, which also are ten kings, weren't different from the seven kings mentioned above. But then, maybe the ten horns/kings represent ten industrial nations rather than ten financial ministers of those nations. Anyway, these ten industrial nations would have a very good chance of controlling the global economy with their policies and could certainly carry out Revelation 13 which talks about economic sanctions.

Mind you, it hasn't come yet but China is growing rapidly and could join even now and Russia certainly could join as well. That would leave us only one short of ten.

Nothing absolute yet, but I'll keep watching and contemplating.
JeffL  - posted
Reminds me of this verse regarding Babylon's judgment. Not that I see this as merely material wealth, but surely it does have some standing in that area in light of the recent global economic 'slump.' With all the talk of greed being the cause the church could stand up as some moral beacon to restrain, for a time, the evil that, as the pundits claim, is at the root of the problem.

The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought.
Rev 18:15-17 (KJV)
JeanneH  - posted
Hey Jeff!

My husband has been studying these passages lately too. He came accross an interesting article on the web. It brings together both the Daniel prophesies as well as the Rev. prophesies which concern this end-times beast. I think it is a worthwhile read. Here is the link www.focusonjerusalem.com/theidentityofthe7.html
JeffL  - posted
Good Morning,

I read the article, Jeanne. There is a lot of information there to digest. It would take some time to study it out, as a good Berean should, before I can comment on it fully. However, at first reading there does seem to be some good scholarly effort to uncover and document some basic historical information. That which is fact could be useful in a personal understanding of those prophecies. But, of course, the conclusions would need to be well studied before I can jump on board with this in its entirety.

I must say that I am slightly prejudiced against anything or anyone whose focus is on the earthly Jerusalem which Paul tells us in Galatians is in bondage while the Jerusalem which is above-- that is, in heaven-- is free. (cf., Gal 4:25-26). The reason being their tendency is to interpret everything through lenses which see Jerusalem, Israel, and the Jewish nation as God's chosen people even though Jesus left them and their house corporately desolate and turned the focus to the Gentiles-- representing the 'low-lifes' found on the hi-ways and byways who would replace the invited guests who, by one excuse after another, refused to come to the wedding supper.

I remember that it is not those born of flesh which are the seed of Abraham, but it is rather those born of promise which are his true descendants. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and therefore no Jew will enter heaven by virtue of his or her natural birth. They will only become partakers if they are born again of a spiritual birth through faith in Jesus Christ as Jesus told Nicodemus. There is no other way. But it looks like an interesting read.

Did you share what I wrote with your husband? What were his comments?
JeanneH  - posted
The article I mentioned wasn't written by anyone associated with the New Jerusalem website, just recommended by it. I wouldn't let that cloud your openess to it too much. But I certainly agree, we must ALWAYS be diligent Bereans!

I will have hubby read your comments and get back to you [Smile] .

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