House Church Talk - Re: Baptisms and Administrations: Star of Bethlehem

Bruce Woodford bwood4d at
Mon Apr 12 23:37:03 EDT 2004

Dear Ross,
When I asked:" Have I understood you wrong, or do you actually believe that 
scripture  teaches that there is one mediator between God and men, the 
nation of  Israel?"...

You responded:"Under the New Covenant, Israel as a nation, serves as priests 
to the other nations as appointed. This does not displace the work of Christ 
or the HS."

Dear brother. where in scripture did you ever find this idea set forth???
-What passage of scripture that deals with the new covenant speaks of Israel 
as priests???
-What passage of scripture ever teaches that Israel (under any covenant) was 
or is or ever will be PRIESTS TO THE OTHER NATIONS?
- Scripture teaches priests made by God are priests UNTO HIM.  Ex.19:6; 
Rev.1:6; Rev.5:10

Concerning the magi, the star and Numbers 24:17, you wrote:"However they 
interpreted things one can only speculate, but if they knew the above 
passage from Israel's writings and saw the phenomena of the star, its 
symbolism and significance would have been obvious to them. The reason the 
magi observed the stars was to look for signs."

Brother, can you explain to me how they would come to such a conclusion??  
Why would any new star be immediately connected by them to Num.24:17???   
What would make them think that this particular star was associated with the 
prophecy of Num.24??

I'd written:"Rather, the facts that (1) they did not know of the birthplace 
of Christ (a  fact which any Jew could have told them) and (2) that they had 
to travel all  the way to Jerusalem in order to ask their question seems to 
provide very  clear evidence that they'd had NO CONTACT WITH JEWISH PEOPLE 
AT ALL IN THEIR  OWN COUNTRY!  Brother Ross, what do you honestly think the 
probabilities are that such men  (if indeed there were Jewish people living 
in their own country) would have  travelled so far to find the information 
they needed instead of asking their  "next door neighbours"???  To be 
honest, I'm more baffled than ever with your insistence that the magi had 
indeed gotten all their revelation through Jewish people!!! "

You responed:"The lawyers lived in Jerusalem so there would be no one with 
any more knowledge in the dispersion than the magi themselves."

Brother Ross, Jewish people in the dispersion had the scriptures and , as a 
whole were familiar with them! So what makes you think that "there would be 
no one with any more knowledge in the dispersion than the magi 

You continued:"Daniel had been put in charge of the magi and there lies the 
connection. It is not far-fetched to think that Daniel would have had a 
significant and lasting effect on that fraternity not only as a result of 
his person but also the contributions he would have made which would include 
Israel's literature. Now however speculative it is as to what effect Daniel 
may or may not have had, it remains a matter of fact that Daniel is the 

Dear brother, you regard as FACT what is only a possibility!  You assume but 
do do KNOW that the magi came from Persia! But if Daniel was a connection 
(like about 500 years BEFORE the magi of Matt 2!) Daniel was one of those in 
the dispersion who was very familiar with the scriptures which seems to 
disprove your statement that no one in the dispersion had any more knowledge 
than the magi themselves!   I thought you had maintained all along that the 
Jewish community in the dispersion  WAS ACTUALLY THE SOURCE OF THE MAGI'S 

So now I am more confused with your view than ever!  If none in the 
dispersion knew more than the magi, how could the Jewish community in the 
dispersion be the source or channel of the magi's revelation of God????

Re. my question about Job and Abraham, you wrote:"So that there is no 
misunderstanding, I would agree with you that Job had revelation apart from 
Abraham just as any one would have before then."

Well brother, this is something that I had no idea you believed before this. 
Let me restate to you what I am hearing and ask you to verify if I am 
understanding you correctly....

It seems to me from what you said above that, prior to Abraham's call by 
God,  God would reveal Himself to anyone, regardless of nationality. But 
after God called Abraham, God purposed that ALL of His revelation of Himself 
ISRAEL EXCLUSIVELY.   Have I heard you correctly?   If so, are you aware of 
any scriptures which explicitly teach this doctrine?  Or is this one of the 
"deductions" which you believe are just as valid or even more valid than 
explicit statements of scripture???

Your brother in Christ,


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