[House Church Talk] Baptisms
dlbeaty at copper.net
Thu Jan 29 22:21:36 EST 2004
It seems I have been out to touch, when I read today that you are now a
My knowledge of the Modern Quakers in very limited, but their history really
fascinates me. They seem to have a lot in common with my Pentecostal
forefathers, including the tendency to contrast the Spirit baptism with the
Many close friends and preachers I know also see water baptism as ridiculous
when we have so wonderful a privilege of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
For me it is as simple as the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ commanded us
to be baptized in the water and also promised us that He would baptize us in
the Holy Spirit.
I would not kill anyone that disagreed with me on this though!
Columbus, Ohio USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vanessa DiDomenico" <van3hijos at yahoo.com>
To: "House Church Talk" <house church talk at housechurch.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [house church talk] Baptisms
> Note that those of us who are Quakers do NOT believe- in the need for a
> water baptism, which is the baptism of john, but we want ONLY the basptism
> of Christ, which John himself said was of fire and holy spirit, NOT of
> water. Water baptism was a renewed jewish ritual, a preparation for what
> was coming. if one is only in preparation, well fine, let them have water!
> It has been so for over 350 years.
> I remember when I met the Lord, before I ever knew of Quakers, I could
> never understand why HE would require something as ridiculous as being
> submerged in water. Soon, someone showed me hebrews 6:1 and the verses
> following it, where Paul says to abandon all those rudiments, and go on to
> perfection, and lists water baptism among the rudiments. THAT is why we
> Quakers do NOT use water, and we also marry in the Bible way: the woman
> enters the man's room, and they are married! This, BTW, is accepted by US
> law since over 2 centuries ago as a LEGALLY acceptable marriage. Enough
> Quakers gave up their lives for this. And Puritans, Baptists, in Boston,
> killed them also for not using water! That is a real Christian, huh, one
> that will kill another because he didn't use water for baptism? ROFL
> It wasn't until I met Quakers over the net a couple of years ago, and they
> came here, and then went to Iraq, and now we work together as I report to
> our lobby in Congress of Bush's lies about our president here in venezuela
> (and NEVER trust what you hear on CNN about venezuela... I have caught
> over 5 lies already, and I am working with some reporters on media bias on
> this). Now THOSE are REAL Christians, the church of Philadelphia which is
> mentioned in Apocalypse as the one 'with little force (there are few
> Quakers) but who really obey the Lord'. It is the ONLY church in
> revelations which does NOT also receive criticism! I believe it refers to
> us, because I believe that rev was written for TODAY, not only for those
> churches which existed then. And think of human rights: ALL first set up
> by William Penn in Philadelphia! My son, who studies in a US overseas
> school here, and i were studying US history last night for a test, and he
> is amazed at how much Quakers did... its like the US would be NOTHING
> today if it weren't for Quakers... all was done by them, slaves freed, the
> Industrial revolution started (that is what we studied last night), etc.
> In our home, Quaker Meetings are soon starting, for they have sent us some
> $$ to paint andf fix up the place... even sent us money last year to eat
> and buy my medications! Other churches just ask for money, these send it
> to us! Yes, we do spend all our time on preaching and street work, but
> this is not an organized thing, it is a home church... only that we live
> in a large warehouse, soon to be a community center too. And the president
> which Bush calls a dictator here (because he won't let the thives and
> terrorists now living in the US continue stealing), is providing the poor
> with doctors from Cuba... 23,000 have come to work with the poorest of the
> poor... like the poor lady giving tithes, compared to the rich man who
> gave much more but for him it was nothing. What Cuba is doing for
> Venezuela is worth 1 million times more than what the US does for the
> whole world in charity! And those congressmen silently erased what our
> lobby had manged to put into the law... the right for Americans to travel
> to Cuba. And our president spent 2 hours preaching Jesus to Fidel, too!
> Sorry for the political statements, but this is what my life is today...
> and how is it related to water baptism? That people dont't THINK anymore,
> neither of God nor of us humans, with reason, we just accept traditions as
> the law.
> Vanessa from venezuela
> --- Bruce Woodford <bwood4d at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Ross,
> > The baptism which we have been discussing is the new covenant baptism
> > that
> > is done by men. I am well aware that there are a number of different
> > baptisms of people and objects in a variety of fluids in the old
> > covenant
> > scriptures (John's baptism included.) But after the new covenant was
> > brought
> > in by the shedding of the blood of Christ at Calvary, the only baptism
> > of
> > which I am aware of which men were the baptizers is the baptism of
> > believers
> > in water.
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