House Church Talk - cessation of spiritual gifts

[Bruce Woodford]

Hi Ross,

You wrote:" as Paul says, they (spiritual gifts) would and did pass away 
whereas Love, Hope, and Faith remain. Love forever, but Hope and Faith until 
the coming of the Lord where they shall be realized."
Dear brother in what passages of scripture did Paul say:
-that ALL the spiritual gifts of Rom.12, I Cor 12 and Eph.4 WOULD PASS AWAY?
-that any of them DID pass away?

In I Cor.13:8-10 he wrote the following facts:
-prophecies shall fail,
-tongues shall cease,
-knowledge shall vanish away.  (this is only 3 out of a total of 19 
different gifts listed in the 3 chapters noted above!)
-we know in part,
-we prophesy in part,
-when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done 
away,
-when that which is perfect is come, we shall see face to face (no longer 
"through a glass darkly"),
-when that which is perfect is come, I shall know even as also I am known, 
(no longer just "in part").
-faith, hope and charity abide now.   (BTW, faith is one of the gifts listed 
in I Cor 12!)

What is it in this passage that identifies, to your mind, the coming of the 
Lord?
What do you believe is "that which is perfect"?
When did it/will it come?

That event marks the timing of  3 things:
(1) the doing away with that which is in part (knowledge and prophecy),
(2) the end of our seeing through a glass darkly and the beginning of our 
seeing "face to face",
(3) Paul's knowing as he was known.

Please explain for us how and why you have concluded that all four of these 
things have already happened and when (at what point in history) you think 
they happened.

You also wrote:"The gifts were a necessity due to a lack of maturity in the 
Body of Christ. Gifts were given to supply that which lacked in the new 
church. Now maturity supplies it having been nurtured in the admonition of 
the Lord, of course. It would be handy to possess such gifts in situations 
where maturity is lacking but we have recourse to other things now 
available. A goal should not be how to get everyone to use their gifts, it 
should be how to get everyone mature!

Brother, it seems to me that you are saying two contradictory things here:
(1) "We HAVE ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the 
Son of God, UNTO A PERFECT (MATURE) MAN, unto the measure of the stature of 
the fulness of Christ" and
(2) We HAVE NOT ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of 
the Son of God, UNTO A PERFECT (MATURE) MAN, unto the stature of the fulness 
of Christ.

So, brother, the big question seems to be, "Has that which is perfect 
(maturity in the Body of Christ) come or has it not?"

Your brother in Christ,
Bruce

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