House Church Talk - Re: Passion

jim pierceall jpierceall at
Wed Mar 3 16:24:51 EST 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "flash" Dan
> I dunno - if this is what makes me a saint...
> I have always been under the impression - speaking off the top of my head
and without
> scripture - that it was the rending of the temple curtain that is the
horribleness of agony -
> not a physical torture or agony.

???  Dan, Are you saying the rending of the veil into the Holy of Holies was
a "bad thing"?

Me thinks that good! Not bad!  But maybe I missed what you were really
trying to express???

Dan:  <<<It is embodied in My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me
> and no film can come close to capture that horribleness.  One who was in
the bosom of the
> father from before creation - now forsaken of the Father - for me. >>>

I have heard that taught, as what and why our Lord quotes David from the
cross...  Even to the extent, that If you don't see that Father turns His
back on Yeshua at that time, as He can't/won't look on Sin, as the Messiah
took all sin on Himself...  So popular, that has become a doctrine (approved
teaching), and if one doesn't quickly agree, they somehow are a heretic...

But Dan, what if the why Yeshua quotes that, isn't that God has turned His
back, but he is making a final appeal to those religious rulers that day,
"Here I am, as David has foretold you long time ago...  Your Messiah!  Look!
and don't miss - I AM it's fulfillment!

With certainty, among those whose job it was to scrutinize, and put to
memory the Hebrew Text,
the quoting of Ps 22, was as a "buzz word" introduction, that succeeding
verses might be weighed, in light of the display before their very eyes...
I don't believe Yeshua was addressing Father, I believe He was addressing
the witnesses to that scriptural fulfillment...  What if Yeshua's eyes were
filled w/ love, and his heart full of forgiveness, as He could well have
been directing those
words to those that had just rejected Him...?

As for God turning His back on Yeshua that day...?  The teachers don't read
far enough...  For verse Ps 22:24
24 For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
neither hath He hid His face from Him; but when He cried unto Him, He heard.
KJV  <caps supplied for clarity>

Throughout the text of Psalm 22 we see several instances of soul-searching
anguish/humiliation, only then followed w/ triumphal confidence, and

Once I asked, one of these that held tightly, to God turning His back upon
Messiah...  I asked, how do you suppose or reconcile, God turns His back on
God?  Anyone?

While I am certain, Mel is flawed in his IC influenced account of the
events that day...  He does not stand alone... IC-isms seem to have impacted
not few...

and the good thing about hc
relationships, we are NOT bound by scripted and orchestrated, standard
party line, politically approved  containments...  We are free to explore
and freely share w/ brethren, other potentials in mutually edifying
that we ALL might grow in love of He that has done, and will continue to do,
soooo much more than we could do, think or ask...

As the water levels of love rise, may all of our boats be lifted... as we
are found...

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set
down at the right hand of the throne of God.

JimP - kentucky

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