House Church Talk - hc, women JL

Bruce Woodford bwood4d at
Mon May 3 19:46:50 EDT 2004

Hi Claire,

You wrote: "Since I get the list in digest form, I will not reply any more, 
I didn't realize it sent the whole digest and it is not possible to reply to 
a specific email."

I've found similar problems with digests on other lists. But the solution is 
simply this: before you send your response, delete everything from the text 
of your message which you do not want to send. So, sister,  I truly hope you 
will continue to participate in this and other discussions here!

You also wrote: If we take a look at history, many sincere people sincerely 
led many astray. Far more things ended up going the wrong way than the right 
way, and even groups going the right way for a while did some turns and 
twists. What I notice time and time again is that there is never an 
examination of why things went wrong and what can be done to prevent its 
repeat. Since we all have hearts that are deceitful above all else and 
desperately wicked, the only method of prevention I see is the system of 
checks and balances mentioned in scripture, to submit to one another."

Dear sister, submitting one to another certainly is taught in scripture, but 
so is the younger submitting to the elder, wives submitting to their 
husbands etc.  But submission is NOT a safeguard against false teaching or 
practice!  The only objective safeguard is to search the scriptures daily 
whether these things are so!  Acts 17:11

Re. submission, you continued:" In other words, everyone has a voice and is 
an essential part of the body. If certain people are either not allowed to 
participate or encouraged to limit their participation for fear of 
rejection, need for acceptance, the safety procedure doesn't work."

Claire, the fact that every believer is an essential part of the Body of 
Christ does NOT mean that every member can speak at any or all times!  There 
are times and situations in which God has fobidden that MEN  should speak! 
(Men are forbidden to speak in tongues in gatherings of the whole church in 
a city IF THERE IS NO INTERPRETTER.  A prophet who is speaking in a 
gathering of the whole church in a city is forbidden to continue speaking 
SITTING BY. I Cor.14:28 and 30)  So why should it not be accepted that there 
are also times and situations in which God has not permitted women to 
But in all these situations, the basis for these men or women not 
participating is NOT fear of rejection,  or the need for acceptance!   
Rather it is obedience to the revealed will of God!

If we would only realize that:
-UNTIL the back of the denominationalism is broken,
-UNTIL there is a willingness on the part of Christians in general to meet 
with each other in city-wide whole church gatherings in one place, and
-UNTIL there is a personal willingness on all of our parts to submit to I 
Cor.14:23-40 in such gatherings, we will never experience the great 
blessings that God has in store for our communities as a result of those 
gatherings!!!  In other words, our own rebelion against the God of heaven is 
the one great root cause of the lack of blessing and power that we so much 
desire ro see poured out in our communities!  But as we repent and change 
our ways, only then will we see unbelievers coming into the largest venues 
in our cities and falling down on their faces and confessing that God is in 
us of a truth!  (I Cor.14:25)

Men are not permitted to participate in bearing children or mothering. Women 
are not permitted to participate in being husbands or fathers. This is not 
because there is something unfair, or because there is gender prejudice, but 
rather because there is different design and purpose!

Scripture reveals that:
- God is the head of Christ,
-Christ submits to the Father,
-the Father sent the Son and not vice versa.
Do these mean that Christ is inferior to or is put down by the Father?? Not 
at all!

So when scripture reveals that:
- the man is head of the woman,
- a man should pray and prophesy with his head uncovered,
- a woman should have her head covered when she prays or prophesies,
-if a man has long hair it is a shame unto him,
-if a woman has long hair it is a glory to her...
Do these mean that women are inferior to men or are put down by God? Not at 

Rather, both of these situations were established by God in perfect keeping 
with His own wisdom, His great love and His desire to give the very best to 
those who leave the choice to Him!

Can you imagine where you and I would be today if Christ had decided not to 
submit to the Father?

Think how those who willfully decide not to submit to God's revealed will 
inevitably suffer the consequences of their rebellion and bring great 
suffering on others around them as well?

But think also of examples of men and women who have chosen to obey what God 
revealed to them in His Word. They had to make many costly choices in order 
to do so!  But inevitably, great blessing flows not only to those who 
obeyed, but also to many others around them!

I pray that obedience to the revealed will of our God might be the purpose 
of all of our hearts even when we do not understand the reasons why!

You wrote:"I would find it very uncomfortable to sit in a meeting where the 
women had to be silent while the men were free to speak. Why not go to an IC 
and just listen to the preacher? I know a lot of men would find this 
uncomfortable, not just women."

Dear sister,  do you decide which commandments of the Lord to obey by how 
they affect your own   comfort or that of others?   I doubt that any of us 
have ever had the opportunity to sit in a gathering like I Cor.14:23-40 
regulates!  But if and when the day comes in San Diego, when the whole 
church in San Diego comes together into one place,  what should be the basis 
fo the agenda of that gathering?   Should it be the Word of God as revealed 
in I Cor.14 OR should it be "every man and woman does what is right in their 
own eyes  (i.e. what they are personally comfortable with)?

Your final comment was:"As others have stated previously, I believe it was 
Steffi and Wayne Jacobsen who commented that this was not the heart of God." 
      Can you tell us what it was which these said "was not the heart of 

Your brother in Christ,


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