House Church Talk - There can not be male and female3

SameSpecies samespecies at
Tue May 4 14:45:39 EDT 2004

Lets read some of the early church writers words in manuscripts recovered
and translated from approximately A.D. 90 to 200.  These writings are from
approximately 57 to 167 years after Christ, and many are well within the
time frame, when the 12 Apostles would of been living.  Other then the
scriptures, these writings are the closest possible Christian and
non-Christian writings, that give us additional documentation and insight,
into the early New Testament church life.  Some of these writers knew the
brothers and sisters of the first New testament church.  We will all have to
decide for ourselves how much weight these writing carry, because there was
already degradation in the church, and within many of these brother, just as
there is with us today. These are only a couple of examples.  I personnel
feel they will help in dispelling some of the misunderstanding we have
before looking at the verses, I refer to as misunderstood and mistranslated,
such as woman teaching in authority, head covering, etc.  We will be reading
from the book "The Early Christians".

On page 56, in note 70 Lucian say "The recognition that women, too, were
blessed with the gift of prophecy and could fulfill the task of a prophet is
borne out by the Coptic version of the Acts of Paul, where two prophetesses
are mentioned.  Lucian, On the Death of Peregrinus."  From page 56, in note
77  "Origen and Eusebius knew of female apostles in the second century.  In
the Acts of Paul a woman, Thecla, was regarded as an apostle."  On page 31,
in paragraph 2, "It is all the more astounding that "The Teaching of the
Twelve Apostles" and Hermas' The Shepherd use the term "apostle" in a much
broader sense than later generations.  But God did call out other, new
apostles, even after he had sent out the twelve and Paul.  Tertullian and
Origen confirmed this and gave the name of "apostles" to the seventy
disciples in the Gospels."  Now we know this is supported by the New
Testament in the fact that we wear warned to be aware of false apostles and
to only except the true ones, however no number of apostles was set down as
a limiting factor, and the New Testament documents more then the 12
apostles.  Also, are there not still sent ones today.  On page 66, paragraph
2, were Gaius Pliny, governor in Asia Minor, is writing a report to the
Emperor Trajan and we quote, "I thought it all the more necessary, then, to
find out finally what was true by putting to torture two girls who were
called serving girls."  This is from Correspondence, Trajan with Pliny,
Letters X.96-97, A.D. 112.  On page 96, note 11, "the girls serving at table
clearly describes the nature of the diakonia" (deaconess).  On page 90, in
paragraph 25, "Because we do not make any distinctions in rank and outward
appearance, or wealth and education, or age and sex, so they devise an
accusation against us that we practice cannibalism and sexual perversions.
Tatian, Address to the Greeks 31.7-35."  On page 93, in paragraph 33, "Be
ashamed, you who are known to be disciples of women yourselves, that you
scoff at the women who join us as well as at the church who stands by them!
Tatian, Address to the Greeks, chapters. 33-34."  Now in this early
manuscript we can see that women were disciples.  Look at the wording;
"known to be disciples of women yourselves".  We can also see that women
were disciplining other saints and that the early church was standing by
them.  Let us also remember the historical accounts we have of the many
female martyrs and the New Testament verses that give evidence to these
facts.  On page 168, in paragraph 70, "After this I will pour out my Spirit
over all flesh, over my servants and handmaids, and they shall prophesy.
Justin, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 87.3,4,6."  This statement is also
found in the New Testament.  On page 168, in paragraph 71, "Among us you can
see both men and women who have received gifts of grace from God's spirit.
Justin, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 88.1."  Also supported by the New
Testament.  On page 338, in paragraph 72, "They are flesh, and yet they hate
the flesh.  Priscilla, quoted in Tertullian, On the Resurrection of the
Flesh 11."  On page 338-339, paragraph 77, "The gospel is proclaimed by the
holy prophetess Prisca to the effect that the holy servant knows how to
administer a life of sanctification.  She bears witness that He brings into
harmony that which purifies...Tertullian, Exhortation to Chastity 10."  In
the two preceding quotes we see Priscilla of the New Testament church age
being referred to as a prophet and being quoted as an authority, and we
don't see mention of her husband, which is the common excuse we use for down
playing her functioning, such as the teaching to Apollos of Alexandria in
Acts 18:24-26.  We down play it by saying her husband was present and that
the teaching and correction was done in private.  But in the quotes from the
historical records above, she is a holy prophet.  We also have another
female prophet Maximilla quoted in Antimontanist quoting Maximilla,
Anonymous in Eusebius V.16.17. and V,16.18. on page 339 and on page 346.  On
page 355, paragraph 59,  "The new prophecy is rejected because Montanus,
Maximilla, and Priscilla plainly teach more frequent fasting than marrying."
Here Maximilla and Priscilla, two female prophets are having their teaching
upheld by the church as an authority to a false prophecy.  On page 338,
paragraph 72,  "They are flesh, and yet they hate the flesh.  Priscilla,
quoted in Tertullian, On the Resurrection of the Flesh 11".  On page 338,
paragraph 77,  "The gospel is proclaimed by the holy prophetess Prisca to
the effect that the holy servant knows how to administer a life of
sanctification.  She bears witness that He brings into harmony that which
purifies.  They see visions.  They discern the importance of everything here
below and determine the shape.  They hear voices announcing salvation as
well as those full of hidden mysteries.  Tertullian, Exhortation to Chastity
10".  I wonder if these different writer all received this instruction
straight from these female teachers and prophets mouth, or is it possible
they also wrote letters, epistles as Paul did.  On page 339, paragraph 79,
"I am chased like a wolf from the flock of sheep.  I am not a wolf.  Word am
I, and spirit, and power.  Antimontanist quoting Maximilla, Anonymous in
Eusebius V.16.17".  On page 339, paragraph 80,  "There shall be wars and
revolutions.  Maximilla, quoted in Eusebius V.16.18".  Here these female
prophets are again being quoted in some of the earliest New Testament
writings found written by the early church fathers.  On page 346, note 79,
"Eusebius expressly asserts that it was the Spirit who spoke through
Maximilla (female prophet) here; that this passage is therefore not a record
of Maximilla speaking for or about herself, but the Spirit speaking through
her".  Note 83-86,  "In a person gripped by the Holy Spirit, God himself
speaks and acts...the Spirit itself...had "entered" into their prophets and the same way as he spoke through the prophets of the Old
Testament".  These last quotes bring up another very interesting point for
us to consider.  We will post it in "there can not be male and female off

May it be the Spirit that speaks through us all, so God can have His glory,
His image, His expression in the church,


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