House Church Talk - Re: Look who Jesus Chose

Ross J Purdy rossjpurdy at
Thu May 6 06:16:47 EDT 2004

Thank you for your response Jim!

> Hi Ross - You expressed your cessationist position again w/ this - <<But I
> think gifts were already passing away by then>>
> So I almost feel silly to bring this up and ask you.... yet....?
> Rom 1:11-12
> 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift,
> the end ye may be established;
> 12 that is, that I with you may be comforted in you, each of us by the
> other's faith, both yours and mine.
> Note: to the end <eis> you may be established...  ever think on that any?
> And if that end has come, does that mean we now operate and function under
> some other form of faith, than the faith Paul hoped might be established
> enhanced by the "spiritual gifting"?
I think the gifts did their Job and we are to be thankful for that. I am not
convinced that Paul is speaking of the ministry gifts in Romans here because
in chapter 12 they already have them.

> Of course if you believe "spirituals" 1 Cor 12:1 <pneumatikos>" has ended,
> then we indeed have a far different and altered "grace" than what Paul was
> out to proclaim and see believers establish IN...
> There is no doubt, we witness many out today to establish a cerebral
> expression of faith - but was it ever authorized, is the question?
> Grace = God enabling us to do, what we could never do for ourselves...
> Has that changed?  Thanks for sharing, and allowing me to springboard...
> some...

Again Jim, God's grace did indeed accomplish exactly what it was supposed to
in the manner of distribution that it came in in the first century. Now,
God's grace still accomplishes everything it needs to and even today we can,
as James says, thank the Father of Lights for every good gift that we
receive. I am just convinced that those particular ministry gifts enumerated
in Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, and Eph 4 have served their purpose and passed away
then. This is not to say that some of the same functions they served don't
still exist, its just that in the mature Body, those functions are handled
by servant leaders in the assembly. Is the HS active today? Yes, in a far
more powerful way in conjunction with the written Word, even if it is a far
more subtle manner in some ways.

> BTW:  I surely love this picture!  verse 12  "that I with you may be
> comforted in you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine. "
> Appearing that we get to see rich method Paul saw himself "in fellowship"
> other's and not Lording it over them...  He wanted HS operating in other's
> lives, that he might turn and partake, and harvest fruit and growth unto
> himself...
> Far cry from the often supposed Mighty Paul-isms expressed today ...  No
> wonder believer's cried and hated to see him depart...  Differing
> dramatically from the "relief", we often feel today when the "high and
> mighty" depart our abodes... O;>)


In Christ,
Ross Purdy

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