House Church Talk - Re: Two or three gathered

Glenn Frank glennfrank at
Tue May 11 15:17:40 EDT 2004

Ok... Well approval may not be the best description of it... And I agree
that Jesus stands in our Midst when we are gathered together doing His

I guess what I was getting at was that when we are in unity and have
resolved our conflict we are standing with Him.. .His spirit is there with

If we were not forgiving and letting this thing go unresolved, and not
following a godly plan to do His will then by definition we would not be in
his presence.

Glenn Frank  

On 5/11/04 2:11 PM, "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at> wrote:

> Hi Glenn,
> You wrote:"The way I read Mat thew 18:20 is not so much His 'presence' He is
> talking about (for as we both stated, He is present always... Whether we are
> there or not) but Jesus was saying that when you resolve your conflict
> between brothers in this way -- that is in essence Jesus saying "this is
> good"... Or putting His blessing and approval on it. When Jesus said this he
> was still in Bodily Human form. So I don't think his intent in the verse was
> to say that when you resolve issues like this with your brothers I will come
> running and stand there with you. He was saying something like, "it is like
> I was here with you resolving your issue". That is why I was saying that
> while it is true that God is there with us when we gather (he is always with
> us... Not just when we gather)... This verse is not a proof text for it.
> This verse is simply saying that when we forgive and resolve sin between
> brothers in the right way, it has Jesus' approval."
> Dear brother, If the expression "in the midst" was used elsewhere in
> scripture to express approval, I think you might have a point. But the
> expression is used 5 times in scripture relatibve to the Lord Jesus being
> "in the midst".  But in none of the following do we see that His presence in
> the midst is an expression of His approval. In fact, in Rev.1 and 2, He
> stands in the midst of the 7 churches of Asia and has words of reproof to
> speak to almost all of them!
> Mat thew 18:20  For where two or three are gathered together in my name,
> there am I in <1722> the  midst <3319> of them.
> Luke 24:36  And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in <1722> the midst
> <3319> of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
> Acts 2:22  Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man
> approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did
> by him in  <1722> the midst <3319> of you, as ye yourselves also know:
> Revelation 1:13  And in <1722> the midst <3319>  of the seven candlesticks
> one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and
> girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
> Revelation 2:1  Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things
> saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in
> <1722> the midst <3319> of the seven golden candlesticks;
> The following are all the other places where the expression is used. I don't
> think you will find one where  a person being "in the midst" is an
> indication of that person's approval of those with which he is found!
> Mat thew 10:16  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in <1722> the midst  <3319>
> of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
> Mat thew 18:2  And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in
> <1722> the midst  <3319> of them,
> Mark 6:47  And when even was come, the ship was in <1722> the midst  <3319>
> of the sea, and he alone on the land.
> Mark 9:36  And he took a child, and set him in <1722> the midst  <3319> of
> them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
> Luke 2:46  And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the
> temple, sitting in <1722> the  midst <3319> of the doctors, both hearing
> them, and asking them questions.
> Luke 21:21  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let
> them which are in <1722> the  midst <3319> of it depart out; and let not
> them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
> Luke 22:55  And when they had kindled a fire in <1722> the midst  <3319> of
> the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
> John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in
> adultery; and when they had set her in <1722>  the midst <3319>,
> John 8:9  And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience,
> went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus
> was left alone, and the woman standing in <1722> the midst <3319>.
> Acts 1:15  And in those days Peter stood up in <1722> the midst  <3319> of
> the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred
> and twenty,)
> Acts 4:7  And when they had set them in <1722> the midst <3319> , they
> asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?
> Acts 17:22  Then Paul stood in <1722> the midst <3319>  of Mars' hill, and
> said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too
> superstitious.
> Acts 27:21  But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in <1722> the midst
> <3319> of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not
> have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss.
> Philippians 2:15  That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God,
> without rebuke, in <1722> the  midst <3319> of a crooked and perverse
> nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
> Hebrews 2:12  Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in <1722>
> the midst  <3319> of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
> Revelation 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
> the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,
> which is  in <1722> the midst <3319> of the paradise of God.
> Revelation 4:6  And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto
> crystal: and in <1722> the  midst <3319> of the throne, and round about the
> throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
> Revelation 6:6  And I heard a voice in <1722> the midst <3319>  of the four
> beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for
> a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
> Revelation 22:2  In <1722> the midst <3319> of the street of it, and on
> either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve
> manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the
> tree were for the healing of the nations.
> So would we not be better to simply allow the words of the Lord Jesus in
> Matt.18:20 mean exactly what they say, just as they mean exactly what they
> say in every other instance in scripture?
> Your brother in Christ,
> Bruce
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