House Church Talk - speaking
bwood4d at hotmail.com
Sat May 15 21:01:58 EDT 2004
In response to my e , you wrote:"Its obvious that you will be able to find
justfication for your position and continue in what you want to believe. In
My Opinion, I Cor 11:5 Paul has already assumed the right of women to pray
or prophecy publicly (11:1-16); here he probably is emphasizing the right of
women to judge prophecy, something restricted to the male leadership of the
church. As well, women (or men for that matter) shouldn't be disrupting
meetings with questions or chatter . I see coverings in that it was an issue
of hair, long for women short for men. A cultural issue. This will not
change anyones mindset if you cannot change. I feel the real issue is
insecure men afraid of what their wives might say about them in the
meetings, revealing who they really are. Isn't it just old fashioned
CONTROL? Its so much easier to control by the flesh then to submit to one
another. As C.S. Lewis said. "Who needs a head if you can walk in
agreement." In my opinion, if you cant walk in agreement, you cannot lead,
you can only control by being a dictator."
Dear brother, I think you should know that my wife takes a vocal part in
house church gatherings and I encourage her to do so! You see, it is NOT a
control issue as you suspect! I believe scripture is quite clear that women
are scripturally free to conduct themselves in a house church gathering just
as they are free to have conversations in any other setting (in which
conversation is appropriate) with or without men present. On this list, I
have actively and repeatedly advocated the scriptural nature of our sisters'
vocal participation in all house church gatherings and I have repeatedly
cited scriptures where first century Christian women did just that! THE ONLY
CONTEXT IN WHICH WOMEN ARE TO BE SILENT (i.e. not to speak) IS IN A WHOLE
CHURCH GATHERING OF A CITY. I have also cited a number of actual whole
church gatherings in the book of Acts where all the speakers were males and
no mention is made of any vocal participation of women. Such a gathering is
a unique situation in that it is the only context where scripture also
(1) that speakers speak one at a time,
(2) that if tongues speakers speak, it is to be by two or at the most three,
(3) that no one is to speak in tongues if there is no interpretter,
(4) that 2 or three prophets may speak and other prophets are to judge,
(5) that a prophet who is speaking is to hold his peace if something is
revealed to another prophet who is sitting by,
As to the asking of questions: very good questions and edifying answers are
often spoken by godly women in house church gatherings! But city wide whole
church gatherings are not a suitable place for "question and answer
sessions" or for conversations! I Cor.14:35 does not deal with the issue of
DISRUPTION caused by women asking questions in a whole church meeting, it
deals with the fact that women are to be silent and not to speak in such a
Re. the covering question of I Cor.11, it cannot be a "cultural issue" for
Paul's instructions to Christian men ran totally counter to his very own
Jewish culture in which men always covered their heads to pray or
prophesy!!! Nor can the covering that a woman is to have on her head (when
she prays or prophesies) and which a man is not to have on his head (when he
prays or prophesies) be THEIR HAIR! All you need to do to see how
ridiculous such a position is is to insert into the text the phrase "hair
on" in place of "covered" and "hair off" in place of "uncovered"!!!
Finally, relative to the subject of headship, I won't comment on your C.S.
Lewis quote as I do not know the context in which he was speaking. But from
what scripture says about headship, the reason for it is NOT because parties
are not able to walk in agreement! God the Father and Christ have always
walked in agreement and perfect unity, but God is the head of Christ (I
Cor.11:3), Christ submitted himself to the Father's will (Matt.26:39,42)and
does nothing but what He sees the Father do! (John 5:19,20) So when God,
Himself reveals that God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of the
man and man is the head of the woman, I would find it difficult to argue
with God and say that "a head is unnecessary if you can walk in agreement"!
This sort of philosophy reminds me of the feminist slogan popularized many
years ago, " A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle!" Such a
philosophy comes from people who do not know Christ and the God of the
Bible! I Cor 11:7-12 makes very clear that both men and women are dependent
on and complementary to each other!
Godly headship has nothing at all to do with dictatorial control!
Your brother in Christ,
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