House Church Talk - speaking

Tim Poole pooletim at
Sun May 16 21:01:12 EDT 2004

 This was taken from the NIV footnotes from I Cor. 11:7, Like I said, This
is not my words. You dont have an argument with me. This is an optional
translation of the same. Do you not consider the possibility this could be a
valid optional meaning? Not only that, you may be taking non-essentials and
elevating them to pre-eminence which in my opinion may be considered a false
balance. If this is your practice, in my opinion, you have alienated
yourself from this present culture and incured the rebuke that Paul states
in 1Cor.14:23 that the unbeliever or culture would think your mad? My
sincere apologies if your outreach is to Muslims and Amish. If not, sorry
cant see it. Just my perspective of course, but seeing the ones on this list
that agree with you, its very likely outreach (great commision) is not a
part of the mindset here. Im sorry, but Jesus (Good news) + bondage (Bad
news) doesnt reach many people in my area of the country. In Christ, Tim
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at>
To: <House Church Talk  at>
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  speaking

> Hi Tim,
> You wrote:"Bruce said, "Nor can the covering that a woman is to have on
> head (when she prays or prophesies) and which a man is not to have on his
> head (when he prays or prophesies) be THEIR HAIR! All you need to do to
> how ridiculous such a position is is to insert into the text the phrase
> "hair on" in place of "covered" and "hair off" in place of "uncovered"!!!"
> In response, Niv 1Cor. 11: 7 footnote (vs. 4) Every man that prays or
> prophesies with long hair dishonors his head. (vs.5) And every woman who
> prays or prophesies with no covering (of hair)on her head dishonors her
> head-- She is just like one of the "Shorn Women" (vs.6) If a woman has no
> covering. Let her be for now with short hair. But since it is a disgrace
> a woman to have her hair shorn or shaved. She should grow it again.(vs.7)
> man ought not to have long hair. Sorry, scripture trumps your opinion."
> Dear brother, verse 6 of I Cor 11 makes the issue very clear!  Here's the
> KJV with "short hair" inserted for "not covered" and "long hair" for
> "covered":
> 6  For if the woman have short hair, let her ALSO be shorn: but if it be a
> shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her have long hair.
> The KJV "shorn" is identical to "short hair" and "shaven" is identical to
> "no hair".
> The word "also" Strong's #2532 translates our English words "and" and
> "also".  It is used thousands of times in the N.T. in lists and always
> designates something IN ADDITION TO what precedes it. But short hair and
> shorn hair are THE VERY SAME THING!   But when we realize that I Cor 11 is
> referring to a covering on the head, it truly is something ADDITIONAL TO
> hair!
> You said you used the NIV, but your text sure doesn't look like the NIV to
> me!!  Nor did your replace "no covering"  in verse 6 in your version with
> "short hair" like you suggested!!    If you had, the foolishness of it all
> would have been readily apparent!  "If a woman has short hair,  let her be
> for now with short hair!"
> Here's the NIV with the same insertions:
> 6 If a woman has short hair, she should have her hair cut off; and if it
> a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should have
> long hair.
> The NIV "hair cut off" is identical to "short hair".  " Shaved off" is
> identical to "no hair".
> Your suggestion that the hair IS the covering with which the woman should
> covered when she prays or prophesies is contrary to scripture on a number
> grounds:
> (1) As seen above it cannot account for something that is IN ADDITION TO
> hair as verse 6 requires.
> (2) It does not account for the fact that the dishonor is ONLY ASSOCIATED
> WITH TWO ACTIVITIES (praying and prophesying).  If it really was the
> long hair, it would be associated with dishonor ALL THE TIME her hair was
> cut short!   If it really was the man's long hair, it would not only be
> dishonouring to his head while praying and prophesying, but ALL THE TIME
> hair was long!
> (3) It does not take into account the fact that TWO DIFFERENT EFFECTS ARE
> NOTED relative to what we (men and women) do with our HEADS and our HAIR.
>       -What we do with our HEADS  (covering or uncovering while praying or
> prophesying) brings
>        HONOR OR DISHONOR . (I Cor.11:4-6)
>       -What we do with our HAIR  (allowing it to grow long or cutting it)
> brings GLORY OR SHAME.
> (4) It does not take into account the fact that  THREE DIFFERENT PARTIES
> affected by our choices regarding what they do with our heads and our
>       -CHRIST is honored or dishonored by what  AMAN does with his head
>        PROPHESYING. v.3,4 and 7a
>       -THE MAN is honored or dishonored by what A WOMAN does with her head
>        OR PROPHESYING.v.3,5,6 and 7b
>       -WE ALL are shamed or gloried ALL THE TIME by what WE do with our
> hair. v.14
> Dear brother, scripture trumps ALL our opinions!
> Your brother in Christ,
> Bruce
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