House Church Talk - house baptisms

[Bruce Woodford]

Hi David,
I had written:"David, as I clearly showed in my previous post,  scripture 
does demonstrate that all those who were baptized within households 
BELIEVED! So  such a document about which you hypothesize  above certainly 
WOULD contradict the Bible!"

You responded:"Your demonstration from Scripture apparently eludes me. I 
hope you will be patient with me and explain it further that my 
understanding might be enlightened. I certainly understand the point that 
the Scriptures connect baptism with faith. When a person believes, they then 
are immediately brought to baptism. However, based upon the rules of logic 
alone, this observation does not negate the possibility that baptism might 
be used in other circumstances unrelated to faith. Consider that baptism 
also is for the remission of sins.The Scriptures clearly teach this."

David, during the time when the old covenant, which was made at Sinai, was 
still in force, baptism WAS used for MANY purposes!  Some of these are 
listed below. (The Greek word for baptize is used in the Septuagint in all 
of the following O.T. references.)
-In Exodus 12:22, hyssop was to be baptized in blood to apply it to the door 
posts and lintel at the passover.
-In Lev.4:6*,17* and 9:9 the priest's finger was baptized in blood to 
sprinkle it before the vail or to apply it on the horns of the altar.
-In Lev.14:6* and 51* a bird, cedar wood, scarlet and hyssop were baptized 
in bood and water to sprinkle it for the cleansing of a leper.
-In Lev.14:16* the priest's finger was baptized in oil and sprinkled before 
the Lord in connection with the cleansing of a leper.
- In Num.19:18* hyssop was baptized in water in preparation to sprinkle 
water for the cleansing of a house.
- In Joshua 3:15 the priests' feet were baptized in the Jordan to stop the 
flow of the river so israel could cross on dry land.
-In Ruth 2:14 a morsel of bread was baptized in vinegar to flavor it.
- In I sam14:27 David baptized the tip of his rod in honey to obtain 
nourishment.
-In II Kings 5:14  Naaman was baptized in the Jordan for his cleansing from 
leprosy.
-In II Kings 8:15 a thick cloth was baptized in water in order to suffocate 
the king.
-The Lord Jesus had John baptize him "to fulfill all righteousness". Mat thew 
3:15

(In all the texts above marked with an *, baptism (dipping) was the 
necessary PREPARATION FOR SPRINKLING, but the two actions were NOT 
synonymous as many have supposed!  The Greek word for "baptize" is BAPTIZO. 
The Greek word for "sprinkle" is RANTIZO, (Strong's  #4472) which comes from 
the word RHAINO from which we get our English word "rain"!!!)

Following old covenant practice,  Roman Catholic priests and Reformed 
ministers still baptize their fingers in water in order to sprinkle infants. 
But infants who are sprinkled are NOT BAPTIZED!  Ministers who sprinkle 
infants and stand "against the anabaptist heresy" do NOT baptize babies! 
Rather they have ANABAPTIST FINGERS...for their own fingers are baptized 
(dipped) again and again and again!!!

But it was my understanding that this discussion of baptism was dealing with 
baptism in the context of the new covenant!  The only instructions given to 
new covenant believers relative to baptizing of people require that 
DISCIPLES/ BELIEVERS are the "baptizees".  So it is for this reason that I 
have maintained that all baptisms recorded in the new covenant scriptures, 
whether household baptisms, large group baptisms or individual baptisms were 
ONLY FOR BELIEVERS.

There are many kinds of baptisms carried out all the time in day to day 
situations: painters baptize their brushes in order to apply their paint. 
Chefs baptize many different kinds of food in the course of preparing meals. 
Mothers baptize children in bathtubs. Swimmers baptize themselves whenever 
they go swimming. And if parents wish to baptize their infants in order to 
fulfill religious traditions, then let them go ahead! But they must dip the 
babies if they really want them to be baptized!
But scriptural,  new covenant baptism ALWAYS involves disciples who have 
believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

You claim that "baptism is also for the remission of sins".

But I beg to differ!   REPENTANCE was for remission of sins,  and baptism 
was linked to repentance! See all of the texts where these expressions are 
used:
Mark 1:4  John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of 
repentance for the remission of sins.
Luke 3:3  And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the 
baptism of repentance for the remission  of sins;
Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of 
you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission  of sins, and ye shall 
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(BTW, have you ever noticed that two different questions were asked of 
preachers in Acts 2:37 and Acts 16:30? The jailor asked Paul and Silas, 
"What must I do TO BE SAVED?" The answer was: "Believe on the Lord Jesus 
Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house."

Under deep conviction of their sin, the Jews on the Day of Pentecost asked 
Peter and the other apostles:"Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?"  A 
different question, from that asked by the jailor, required a different 
answer!  There were two things these people ought to have done: those two 
things were repentance and baptism!  But baptism was not required IN ORDER 
TO BE SAVED or for the remission of their sins!)

You continued:"Even so, what about the baptism of Christ? Was it for the 
remission of sins? Clearly not because the Scriptures teach that he had done 
no sin. Therefore, we have an understanding from Scripture that while 
baptism is connected with the remission of sins, this does not mean that 
baptism might not also serve some other purpose. In like manner, seeing the 
connection between faith and baptism in Scripture does not automatically 
mean that infants cannot be baptized simply because we recognize that 
infants because of their mental immaturity cannot believe. In such cases, it 
might be possible for baptism to serve another purpose than that served when 
a person enters baptism with faith. Again, please let me stress that I am 
not one who practices infant baptism. I speak only toward the logical 
necessity of the argument. I don't seem to have the logical surety about my 
non-practice of infant baptism that you have."

Dear brother, I've adressed the baptism of Christ, and it's purpose above. 
Nor have I said that infants cannot be baptized! I have personally baptized 
many infants including my own (for a variety of different reasons!) But not 
one of them was purported to be a scriptural, new covenant baptism!  But it 
is such baptism which I believe is the context of our discussion!

You wrote further:"If you asked me if my whole household believes in God, I 
would say yes. Yet, I have a two year old daughter who has not yet expressed 
individual faith in Jesus Christ (nor has she been baptized). Yet, I 
consider her to be part of my believing household. I would not consider 
myself to be bearing false witness to say that my entire household believes 
in Jesus Christ. If I was an unbeliever and upon hearing the gospel me and 
my wife and my older children believed with me, then later someone said that 
David and his whole household believed, I would not feel any necessity to 
say, "wait a minute, there is a two year old in my household who is not old 
enough to believe, so you need to correct that statement." Do you see where 
I am coming from?"

I'm not sure where you are coming from brother!  YOU might say your whole 
household (including your 2 year old daughter) believes, BUT the question 
is, would the Holy Spirit say so, as he did of almost every household in 
scripture which was baptized??

Your brother in Christ,
Bruce

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*   
http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca