House Church Talk - Re: Pattern or simply an adaptation?

[Scott Dowlen]

Mark 12:28-34 KJV  And one of the scribes came, and having heard them
reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked
him, Which is the first commandment of all?  (29)  And Jesus answered him,
The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is
one Lord:  (30)  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.  (31)  And the second is like, namely this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment
greater than these.  (32)  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou
hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
(33)  And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding,
and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour
as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.  (34)
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art
not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any
question.

------------------
The passage above shows that our Lord saw [love of / relationship with] God
and love of our fellow man as the ultimate point of our life here.  The
scribe recognized that even the old covenant with its many 'laws' was not
about the letter of law, but the spirit of love that undergirded the whole
thing.

I don't understand the need to use 'biblical' terms.  Which
language/translation is required? Greek? Hebrew? KJV?  Too me, the world
isn't waiting for people to speak King James English to them - the world
wants someone to love them. Love them enough to point out sin; love them
enough to warn them of coming judgment; love them enough to invite them into
the kingdom of light.  If we know what the words _mean_ and can express them
in ways that people see and understand -- then we are messengers of God. If
all we do is quote scripture in some obscure language or dialect, cannot
even the heathen do that if they so choose? It is living out what we
believe - in Spirit power and in Truth - that will change the world.

We are called to live out our convictions, and I don't think we are ever
required _by scripture_ to express our ideas limited to the terminology and
usage found in the scriptures. If so, then all translations are sinful, and
all expression of faith that isn't specifically itemized become null and
void.  Given that love (relationship) is the central issue, doesn't it make
more sense that anything that flows out of love, whether itemized in
scripture or not, is therefore 'of God' and if it is given with joy and
thanksgiving to God, then it has truly honored the one who sent us.

I'd say that if Jesus said Love was the key issue then we are more like God
when loving than when propagating nit-picky 'doctrine'.  Doctrine has its
place, and laws and rules. Those things train us up into what is pure and
true. They teach us what is true about God and about love. They help to show
the contrast between Godly love and life and the worldly perversions of
those things. But once trained, the milk is no longer fulfilling. Only the
real relationship fills the aching hunger inside.


BTW, in reference to baptism, "John baptized with water, but Jesus came to
baptize with the Spirit and Fire!".  Keep the olive oil, Dan, I think I'll
take Jesus' baptism!!


Love you Dan, Bruce, Glenn, et. al.!!

Scott




> -----Original Message-----
> From: House Church Talk -bounces at housechurch.org
> [mailto:House Church Talk -bounces at housechurch.org]On Behalf Of Flash
> Sent: Saturday, 24 January, 2004 4:03 PM
> To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> Subject: House Church Talk -  Re: Pattern or simply an adaptation?
>
>
> Bruce - I cannot disagree with anything that you say here, and also
> appreciate what Glenn has driven us to examine - thanks to
> both of you.
>
> I have a question regarding the word relationship.  This is
> not even a word
> found in the Bible.  How can it be central focus?  Can we use
> the Bible
> terminology to speak of what we know as relationship?
> Suggestions please.
> I use the word relationship easily as you do, but am bothered
> that it is not
> in the Bible.  So, what are the words used in the Bible that connote
> relationship?  And, is it more precise to use these words
> than modern words
> such as relationship?
>
> Also, I would point to the reality that it is not only NT
> times that speak
> to what we refer as relationship.  Look at anyone in the OT
> to also see real
> relationship.  Isaiah 53, psalms, David, Moses, Abraham - all
> very keen on
> what we term relationship.  What is the real term which the
> Bible would
> direct us to use.  Otherwise, I'm gonna start baptising in
> olive oil...
>
> >From a Luddite,
> Dan ChicagoArea
>