House Church Talk - Baptisms and Administrations

[Bruce Woodford]

Hi Ross,

You wrote:"The problem with dispensational theology is not that it doesn't 
use Biblical terminology because it does, the problem is that it can't be 
explained with any kind of brevity! It also encompasses a wide variety of 
views which some see as a weakness. But in general, ispensationalist circles 
contain many independent thinkers and studiers which is rather its strength. 
Even though
>as with any movement, there are elements that settle in and degenerate into 
>  denominationalism, there are those that continue to grow and evolve as 
>they emulate the Bereans that searched the Scriptures daily to see whether 
>those things are true or not."

Dear brother, every doctrine of scripture is stated in words of scripture. 
Can you show us a statement of the doctrine of dispensations'administrations 
(plural)?

I'd written:"Of all the places which I have listed where the words "baptizo" 
or "bapto" are used in the scriptures, I've not found any so far that speak 
of Noah's experience in the flood as a "baptism". I certainly may have 
missed some, especially in the O.T. If you could help me locate the text(s) 
you are speaking about, I'd really appreciate it.

You replied:"1Pe 3:20-21; Also note Israel's baptism into Moses in the cloud 
and in the sea without getting wet either. Of course these are types."

But brother, I peter 3 does not call the flood a baptism!  I was not 
disputing that people could be baptized without getting wet! To be baptized 
does not mean to be wet, but rather to be placed into something. The 
children of Israel were placed into the cloud as it was before them AND went 
behind them. IT did not move from being in front and then go around and end 
up behind them. Rather it extended from before all the way to behind them 
and thus they were actually EVELOPED in the cloud.

I asked:"what scripture has lead you to believe that the Holy Spirit is the 
baptizer of new believers into identification with Christ?"

You responded:"Rom 6:3-4 EMTV Or do you not know that as many of us as were 
baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? (4) Therefore we 
were buried with Him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was 
raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also should walk 
in newness of life.
If this is water baptism, then it is self-evident that water baptism places 
us into Christ which would mean baptismal regeneration. Now that means all 
the non-water baptized are unsaved. But Paul was NOT sent to water baptize 
(even if he baptized a few, he did not baptize all and the reason is, I take
it, succeeding revelation), but he was sent to save! (As per 1Cor 10:33 
etc.) The apostle to the Gentiles never mentions water baptism as a 
requirement for salvation but rather explicitly states that it is through 
faith apart from works. So this baptism can not involve water."

Brother, the word "into"(Strong's #1519) used here does NOT indicate the 
medium of the baptism, but rather the purpose or reason for that baptism.  
This is seen in 1 Corinthians 10:2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the 
cloud and in the sea;  The mediums were the cloud and the sea indicated by 
the preposition "en" Stromg's #1722, but the purpose was that they were 
baptized "unto" (#1519) Moses that is, unto his leadership. Moses was NOT 
the medium in which they were baptized!

So regarding the baptism of Romans 6:3, it is the purpose of the baptism in 
the spirit to unite believers with Christ as their Head.  But the baptism of 
verse 4 is a different baptism! The word " indicates that the first (v3) is 
the reason for the second (v.4).  So baptism of believers in water is the 
acknowledgment of the believer of what God has said and done regarding their 
death, burial and resurrection with Christ. I Peter 3:21 says that baptism 
is the answer (acknowledgement) of a good conscience toward God."   Baptism 
is not primarily a demonstration to men who observe but primarily an 
acknowledgement of the believer to God!


The same distinction in words is used in I Cor 12:13. The medium (the 
Spirit) being indicated by "en" and the purpose or reason of the baptism 
being indicated by the other word #1519. The reason for the baptism in the 
Holy Spirit is our union with the Body.

Well, I must close off here and may be without a computer for a few days as 
my son is upgrading mine. Hopefully will continue later.

Your brother in Christ,
Bruce

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