House Church Talk - Re: cessation of spiritual gifts

[Ross J Purdy]

Hi Jim,

> And now for yet another Jim to join in, just to muddy things up a little
more,
> if I possibly can.  (My hopes may often be low, but they are always very
> great.)

If you agreed with me, now that would really cause confusion eh?

> Brother, I am grateful for your continued patience in a talk that often
causes
> tempers to flare.  We believers, even though we have the Spirit of God
> powerfully in us, are often tempted to be foolish and testy when it comes
to
> the things of God.  And I can testify that God has forgiven my own
stupidity
> more times than I can count.
>
> I think I can see where you're coming from, but your argument seems
directed
> more at the activities of certain churches (and at some church traditions,
> such as you MUST speak with tongues or you're a nobody...) than at the
reality
> of Spiritual gifts.

You are welcome. Too much heat never wins. I don't have anything to gain by
it. But If I am correct, I do believe many others have a lot to gain by
being convinced of it. It is interesting that those of my own background
wonder if I am coming out of a pentecostal background. I am of the
background where it is typically taught that the completion of Scripture is
what the coming "perfect" refers to and that only the gifts of evangelist
and pastor-teacher are for today. The completed canon view seems to have
less going for it than does the second coming view (which is nothing at all
in my opinion.) Also, even though there is reasoning for the splitting the
gifts of Eph 4 down the middle to keep some, it struck me as inconsistent
and arbitrary and the reasoning did not necessitate any gifts continuing.

>
> If God Himself has not ceased, then His activities in the church have not
> ceased, and it is foolish for any of us to decide, on our own, what God
has
> stopped doing.  We must not pick and choose among the gifts, deciding what
> will, or what will not, be accepted as from God.
>
> And it is even worse when we try to read our desires and dislikes back
into
> the Scriptures.  As far as I can see in Scripture, God has not called a
halt
> to anything that He does.
>
> He still speaks with human beings.  He continues to give His people skills
and
> abilities they did not receive by way of natural (or contrived) genetics.
He
> continues to transform human hearts and minds by the influences of His
Holy
> Spirit.  He saves souls, just as He always has.  Those who reject the
mercies
> of God, in Jesus Christ our Lord, are still bound for hell.
>
> It is error to assume that God has stopped doing anything.  As long as the
> Spirit is active in the Body of Christ then anything can and will happen.
>
> Maybe you've actually not seen a certain gift in operation, or I have not
seen
> much of another gift.  But that hardly means anything at all, except that
we
> may need to get out more, or simply that God has done (just as always) as
He
> will, when He will, where He will.
>
> Because the Holy Spirit continues to operate in the church, every
Spiritual
> gift is still in operation.  No reason to doubt it or wonder.  Just
because I
> do not speak in tongues (and I do not) means nothing at all about the the
gift
> itself, or the Giver.  In the right time and place, anything may yet
happen.
>  And I'm sure that it does happen wherever God wills it, just as in the
first
> century.

Of course, I disagree with you since the Bible does show differently, at
least in my opinion. Being dispensational in my view, I think God has
changed the way He deals with humanity at times. At the least, the fact that
He deemed it necessary to replace the Old Covenant with a New one seems to
be an overwhelming proof. And that does not violate the fact that God does
not change with respect to His character. Just as He is sovereign and may
give someone an edification gift again, He may also decide that they are to
be suspended. The fact that I have never seen or been convinced that anyone
in my world has ever exercised one proves that He does not operate the same
way (whether He does or does not outside of my little world-and I have
gotten around too). If He does decide to give them, I will rejoice!

In Christ,
Ross Purdy