House Church Talk - Phil & his Visualizing

[Scott Dowlen]

David,

I appreciated your words and scriptures relating to this topic. I had read
Phil's original question, then got buried in work for a few days, and wow,
what a flood of discussion got started!  I hope this is cooling down a bit,
but I still wanted to throw in my perspective, because I, like Phil, have
wanted to 'see' Christ. I'm sure many on this list have had the same desire
at least fleetingly.

I will echo the warning of several others - there is danger in false
visualization. There are techniques of visualization that open one up to
demonic influence. On the other hand, God gave us vivid imaginations that
can create images that have no harm in them. So let's discern the difference
and not throw out all things 'visualized'.

Col 2:9 says that the fullness of the Godhead was revealed in the physical
person of Christ. So I take scripture, and try to see bits and pieces of
what my Lord must have been like. I hear his laughter, and see a spark of
excitement and joy in his eyes as he heals the sick. I hear the passion and
sadness as he weeps over Jerusalem. When the Bible says that people were
amazed at the authority of his words, can't you almost hear the sound of his
voice and see the look in his eyes? Can you believe that Jesus and the
apostles went around stern and serious all the time when so many glorious
miracles were happening? Sometimes, especially early on, the miracles were
so profound they frightened even his closest disciples.

Do I worship these images and ideas? No. But I see them in God's people,
too, so I know that they are not total figments of my imagination. I
experience the feelings - joy, sadness, excitement, etc - as God's power
works in and around me. I see the love of Jesus when I observe my brothers
in my little fellowship hugging each other and being real with each other.

Don't you already see Jesus when you see his body? The image is not perfect.
And one perspective is not enough to get a complete picture. But my Bible
tells me that my mind is renewed, and that I am a new creature, and so I
begin to trust those things in my mind that align with the Christ revealed
in Scripture and by the Holy Spirit.  We who are his body today should be
little pictures of him. Perhaps not perfect, but a reflection nonetheless.
And together, as a whole, I think we are meant to be the fullness of Christ.
If mental images of Jesus, consistent with Scripture and the revelation from
the Holy Spirit, help me or Phil be more fully conformed into Christ's
likeness, then I'm all for it.

But then, that's just me.  :-)


Scott



> -----Original Message-----
> From: House Church Talk -bounces at housechurch.org
> [mailto:House Church Talk -bounces at housechurch.org]On Behalf Of David Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, 24 July, 2004 9:04 PM
> To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Phil & his Visualizing
>
>     Hi Jim, hi all,
>
<<<...>>>
>
> What gets me is how so many religions have borrowed from our
> Judeo-Christian tradition (tradition in a good sense, that
> is.) Sadly, we have borrowed a few things from theirs, too.
> I've seen plenty of new age stuff being imported into the
> church.
>
> I might say to my children: you need to INTERNALIZE the
> life-giving principles of Jesus. A former new-ager might be
> offended by my use of that word due to all the connotations
> in his mind.
>
> Take MEDITATION, for another example. The Old and New
> Testaments are full of it. David, laying on his bed at
> night, musing of God and his mighty works. David, delighting
> in the law of God - his mediation day and night.
>
> Visualizing Jesus seems to be related to these texts:
>
> Hebr. 2:9 But WE SEE JESUS, who was made a little lower than
> the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and
> honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for
> every man.
>
> 2 Cor. 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing
> that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing
> into captivity EVERY THOUGHT TO THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST;
>
> Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
> heart, and with all thy soul, and WITH ALL THY MIND, and with
> all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
>
> Years ago, Grecian Jews came looking for Jesus. May we do so each
> day.
>
> John 12:21 The same came therefore to (another) Philip, which was
> of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would
> SEE JESUS.
>
> Lord, please save us from the misuse of "key words."
>
>     David Anderson
>