House Church Talk - One more time ...

[Lee Underwood]

Bruce,

I thank you for your kind words. You are right. We should not be observers. 
I hated that in the IC. But I hated the attitude I saw in this list over 
the past few days more.

Claire said it so well (in fact, she is one of the few who has been 
straight-up in this whole discussion): "Do we want to be like the IC, where 
there is only pretty small talk and everyone is so afraid of saying 
something that might be interpreted wrongly or cause offense that we have 
no honest, open, real communication, we all fail to exercise the gifts we 
have been given for the benefit of the body?"

It is interesting that many of us responded to Phillip in, what I thought 
was a loving manner. However, one man comes along, with all that epitomizes 
the IC, and not one of you says anything about what he has said. Since I 
was young I heard all of the junk that he spewed forth:

:: the sanctimonious, prideful tone;
:: the attitude that one knows so much and others are so immature;
:: the idea of trying to "provoke" feelings
:: the manipulation of words, i.e.
	: "a 'friends of Job routine"
	: "to gang up and try to skin a brother alive"
	: "Those big guns you want to aim at a good brother"
	: "like those lousy comforters of old"
	: "Pharisaical attitude"
:: etc.

I had thought that kind of junk would not be tolerated on a list of people 
such as this. That kind of philosophy and manipulation makes me sick. It 
turns my stomach. The idea that that we don't want to attack "key words", 
that is from the devil. Jim himself stated it correctly, "This same 
Pharisaical attitude has already chased off a lot of good brothers and 
sisters from this list." The problem is he doesn't realize it is HIS 
attitude, not the others on the list.

And so Jim, you can put another notch in your belt. I for one, am not 
staying on this list. To discuss points of Scripture and things of the Lord 
is one thing. But to have someone who purposely "provokes" people to argue 
is downright disgusting ... and all of you permitted it. No one spoke out 
against it. That is the way of the world. It was used by pagan, unbelieving 
philosophers who stated that "of the gods we know nothing". Scripture 
teaches the opposite, to NOT provoke your brother.

Someone on this list said "to some believers something  may be sin, that is 
not sin to another." That is such an excuse in Christianity to allow things 
that we don't want to confront. I don't want to belong to a discussion list 
whose members (or at least some of them) use philosophy and other things of 
the world - which is not used by Jesus and the disciples - to make points 
or provoke discussion. I know that Paul speaks of that but Christians in 
the U.S. have used it as an excuse to avoid all confrontation. (That way we 
don't have to deal with our own sins.)

Someone else jumped in the middle of the conversation and started saying 
how wrong we all were, AFTER ADMITTING THAT HE HAD NOT READ THE ENTIRE 
CONVERSATION.

It is a shame, because many of those on this list I felt a kinship to. I 
have sent many of these e-mails to others who left the IC. It was like, 
word for word, our own testimonies. Over this past weekend I poured out a 
part of myself to Phillip and to this list. I spoke of things I had not 
voiced to others. For what? To have someone use the biting, cutting tones 
of homogenized Christianity to chop me into bits? Even Jesus didn't put up 
with that. (I am not comparing myself to Jesus.) The church is in great 
error and those who see it are leaving the IC. Praise God! But don't just 
leave the IC, leave the ways of the world also. Scripture says we are not 
to be a part of this world. Leave behind that junk that was brought into 
the church by the "church fathers", all that philosophy and fancy words, 
the sounding pretty in your speech but never saying anything. Focus on the 
Lord; hold onto that.

The sad thing is, Phillip cried out for help and many have twisted it into 
some discussions I heard back in the IC. My love and the blessing of the 
Lord go out to you, Phillip. I meant no harm. I spoke only in love. If my 
zeal caused you pain, I ask for your forgiveness. I pray the Lord reveal 
Himself to you in an awesome way!

Believe me, it is with much regret that I do this. I have suffered much 
over the past several months and had drawn strength from many on this list. 
But, the Lord guided me to leave a place that had the tone that I have seen 
come out this weekend and so now I will leave that spirit again. While the 
curiosity in my flesh burns to hear all your replies, I will be 
unsubscribing after ending this as I don't want to prolong this. I know you 
will probably say I did not give you an opportunity to express yourself but 
I am tired and worn out from this battle.

With blessings and love,
In Messiah

Lee