House Church Talk - Re: House Church Talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 186

[Claire Bennett]

Thank you for your comments.  I would agree that an organism doesn't exactly
transition, its members are coerced, co-opted, divided and conquered.
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Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:00 AM
Subject: House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 186


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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Organism vs. Organization (Bruce Woodford)
>    2. Re: Organism vs. Organization (David Anderson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 02:40:13 +0000
> From: "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at hotmail.com>
> Subject: House Church Talk -  Organism vs. Organization
> To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
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>
> Hi Claire,
>
> You wrote:"I have sadly seen organisms transition into organizations.
> Usually it is because a "leader" has shown up to exploit and manage what
God
> has created.  Or men seek to reproduce or expand what God has done with
the
> idea that it is possible to reverse engineer God's creation to learn his
> methodology."
>
> Dear Sister, members in the body oif Christ who once functioned as healthy
> body members may be conscripted or coerced to join and support an
> organization, but that is NOT "an organizm transitioning itno an
> organization"!    A healthy oak tree that is growing and fruitful may be
cut
> down, sawn unto luimber and fashioned into a table for the board room of
the
> Coca-Cola Corporation.
>
> However, that change (from oak to Coke) can in no way be seen as a
> transition from organizm to organization, any more than a corporate
> boardroom table can be "reverse engineered" back into an oak tree!
>
> You also wrote:"We do know that the Old Testament systems were designed by
> God, and not by man, and each element had a divine purpose."
>
> You are absolutely right here! Such things as a male priesthood of the
tribe
> of Levi, physical temple or tabernacle buildings which were the temple of
> God, animal sacrifices, tithes and offerings to support that priesthood
and
> to maintain the temple buildings etc etc were all right and proper under
the
> old covenant system.
>
> But once the veil was rent in two from the top to the bottom, the old
> covenant was decayed, waxed old and ready to vanish away! (Heb.8:13)  So
> attempting to produce life with old, decayed and obsolete materials just
> DOES NOT WORK!  The new covenant which ia entirely dependent on God
keeping
> His promises to men rather than on men attempting to keep their promises
to
> God is a radically new "ball game"!
>
> Notice the basis of the old covenant system in Ex.20:1-17 and 24:3.
>
> Notice the radically different basis of the new covenant in Heb.8:8-12 and
> II Cor 3.
>
> Under the first, men said, "We will do it all!" But under the second, God
> said, "I will do it all!"
>
> The vast majority of "churches" (including many house churches!!) which
> claim to be new testament churches  follow principles of the old covenant
> rather than those of the new!  Just as it is an impossibility for an oak
> tree to function as a corporate boardroom table, it is an absolute
> impossibility for the body of Christ to function as a religious
> organization!!!
>
> Your brother in Christ,
> Bruce
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> 
>

>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:21:27 -0400
> From: David Anderson <david at housechurch.org>
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Organism vs. Organization
> To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Message-ID: <E1Bex03-0005wV-00 at falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> >Hi Claire,
> >
> >You wrote:"I have sadly seen organisms transition into organizations.
> >Usually it is because a "leader" has shown up to exploit and manage what
God
> >has created.  Or men seek to reproduce or expand what God has done with
the
> >idea that it is possible to reverse engineer God's creation to learn his
> >methodology."
> >
> >Dear Sister, members in the body oif Christ who once functioned as
healthy
> >body members may be conscripted or coerced to join and support an
> >organization, but that is NOT "an organizm transitioning itno an
> >organization"!
>
>     Hi all, Claire and Bruce,
>
> This process, if I understand aright, occurs only as the divine mandates
> of church life are trampled over. Instead of a house of brotherhood, a
> split-level house gets constructed - complete with those upstairs who
> lord it over and essentially silence the rest.
>
> Consider how this gradual process is wiping out the mainline
> denominations of America, which are losing millions of members each year.
> The one to which I used to belong, the Presbyterian Church, USA, has
> spend the last 2 decades arguing over the issue of "ordaining gays in the
>  ministry." In fact, that one issue has dominated their largest
> leadership gatherings. The people in the pews are exhausted and want to
> move on, but no....
>
> Instead of employing the "several speak and the others judge principle"
> the guy from seminary is completely free to inculcate his dubious
> doctrines, totally confident that no one will interrupt his "message." In
> other words, the built in arrangement of checks and balances became
> neutralized.
>
> It is not my belief that everyone in the denominations of America is
> disconnected from God. My point is that the denominational system is one
> which has no warrant from Him.
>
> Form really does determine function.
>
>       David Anderson
>
> We had a real good meeting in Bristol, yesterday. More than thirty. A
> good meeting is one with lots of interaction. Actually, we're just a
> small house church. Don't be discouraged no matter how small yours is.
> Just be faithful to HIM.
>
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> End of House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 186
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