House Church Talk - speaking

[Tim Poole]

Its obvious that you will be able to find justfication for your position and
continue in what you want to believe.

In My Opinion, I Cor 11:5  Paul has already assumed the right of women to
pray or prophecy publicly (11:1-16); here he probably is emphasizing the
right of women to judge prophecy, something restricted to the male
leadership of the church.  As well, women (or men for that matter) shouldn't
be disrupting meetings with questions or chatter .

I see coverings in that it was an issue of hair, long for women short for
men. A cultural issue.

 This will not change anyones mindset if you cannot change. I feel the real
issue is insecure men afraid of what their wives might say about them in the
meetings, revealing who they really are. Isnt it just old fashioned CONTROL?
Its so much easier to control by the flesh then to submit to one another. As
C.S. Lewis said. "Who needs a head if you can walk in agreement." In my
opinion, if you cant walk in agreement, you cannot lead, you can only
control by being a dictator.

In Christ, Tim
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at hotmail.com>
To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: House Church Talk -  speaking


> Hi Tim,
>
> In respojnse to Glenn's question relative to your evaluation of women's
> silence,  required by I Cor 14, as "a terrible and unnecessary form of
> bondage", you wrote: "Galations 3:28 There is not Male or Female, For you
> are ALL ONE in Christ. Is this in practice or is this just a theory? "
>
> Dear brother, Gal.3:28 cannot mean that Christian men cease to be males or
> that Christian women cease to be females! Nor does it mean that Christian
> men and women have identical roles and responsibilities!  The same passage
> also says there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free...for ye are all
one
> in Christ Jesus."   Christian Jews and Greeks do not lose their national
> distinctions or heritage, nor were slaves automatically granted freedom
from
> slavery, nor did free men lose their freedom!!!
>
> The point of this whole passage is that being Jewish, being male, or being
a
> free man did not give anyone an advantage in their relationship with
Christ
> over anyone else who was a Greek, a female or a slave! All  believers,
> regardless of nationality, gender or social status, are made children of
> God. They are all blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places
in
> Christ. They all have access to and enter into the holiest of all and draw
> near to God. None are second or third class Christians!  So yes, Galatians
> 3:28 is not just theory, it is very practical and very precious!
>
> However, Christians who are Jews and Greeks have different
responsibilities
> as they relate to one another in Christ!  Bondmen and freemen have
different
> responsibilities as they relate to one another in Christ, and males and
> females have different responsibilities as they relate to one another in
> Christ! For example: Just as God is the head of Christ, and Christ is the
> head of man, so too man is the head of the woman. (I Cor.11)  Christian
> husbands and wives have different responsibilities because of God designed
> differences between them. (I Cor.11 and Ephesians 5)   That men should be
> the speakers and women should be silent when the whole church in a city
> comes together into one place, IS NOT THE IDEA OF SOME MALE CHAUVINIST,
BUT
> IT IS THE COMMANDMENT OF THE LORD! Please remember that none of His
> comandments are grievous!  (I John 5:3)  Also, one's love for God is
always
> tested and demonstrated by whether or not that one is obedient to the
Lord's
> commands! (I John 5:2)
>
> You also wrote:"1Cor.14:34 says" Women be silent as the LAW says." Have
you
> noticed any laws in our culture that demands this? I see many that find it
> difficult to balance cultural practices with the life of the Spirit. John
> 16:13 Says "The Spirit will guide you into all truth." If your view of the
> bible is to be just a book of rules, then you are in violation and guilty
of
> the whole thing."
>
> Tim, I Cor.14:34 says no such thing!!  It says they are to be under
> obedience (in subjection or submissive to those whom God has ordered to be
> head) as also saith the law.  "The law" is NOT the cultuarally variable
"law
> of the land" in which one may live! It is the scriptures, the law of the
> Lord!  The same word translated "be under obedience" in I Cor 14:34 is
used
> in Romans 13:1and 5 and Titus 3:1 where we are all commanded to be
"subject
> to" and to "obey" the higher powers which are ordained of God.  It is used
> in I Cor 14:32 where the spirits of the prophets are "subject to" the
> prophets.  It is used in I Cor.15:27 and 28 of God "putting under" and
> "subduing" all things in relation to Christ.   In I Cor.16:16 it is used
as
> the saints at Corinth were commanded by Paul to "submit to" such as the
> household of Stephanus who had given themselves to the ministry of the
> saints.  In Ephesians 5:1and I Peter 5:5 it is used in the command to all
> believers to "submit ourselves to"  and be "subject to" one another in the
> fear of God. In Ephesians 5:22, Colossians 3:18, Titus 2:5 and I Peter 3:1
> it is used as wives are instructed to "submit themselves unto" and be
> "obedient to" and "be sin subjection to"  their own husbands.  In
Ephesians
> 5:24, it is used of the church being "subject to" Christ.  In I Peter
2:18,
> it is used of servants "being subject to" their own masters.  In I Peter
> 5:5, the younger ones are commanded to "submit themselves unto" the elder
> ones.  Such submission in the above mentioned relationships has nothing to
> do with cultural norms but rather with obedience to God's word!   It is by
> such  inspired commands and instructions that the Holy Spirit has
determined
> to lead us into all truth! Those who choose to be lead by the Spirit, in
> obedience to His Word are those who stand fast in liberty and are NOT
under
> the law!  But those who choose to rebel against the Holy Spirit's inspired
> instructions can never rightly claim to be walking in the Spirit!
>
> Dear brother, it seems you also misquoted Galatians 5:1 when you
wrote:"Gal.
> 5:1 warns not to allow yourselves to be burdened again by external
bondage."
>
> Many Christians have been deceived to think that liberty in Christ has
> nothing to do with one's "external behaviour"!  They think that if you are
> right with God and free "in the Spirit", external behaviour does not
> matter!!  Such is a lie from the pit of hell!   The Lord Jesus clearly
> taught that what comes out and is observable in one's behaviour is the
true
> test of what is truly in their hearts! (Matt.12:34)  The apostle Paul
> clearly taught that a renewed mind will determine the use of one's body!
> (Romans 12:1,2)  So true liberty (the ability to be and do what God
intends,
> Gal.5:1) very definitely affects one's behaviour and is evidenced by
> obedience to God and His word!  So too, those who are in bondage (unable
to
> be and do what God intends) will also demonstrate that bondage by their
> disobedience to God and His word.  The liberty that the Spirit gives to
the
> new covenant believer is NOT FREEDOM TO LIVE IN DISREGARD TO GOD'S
> INSTRUCTIONS, BUT RATHER THE POWER TO OBEY!
>
> Your brother in Christ,
> Bruce
>
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