House Church Talk - Alexander Strauch on Biblical Eldership

[Gary]

Interesting thoughts, Dan.

Let me suggest that that the Biblical example for a position within the
church that would help the church (living bricks only, please!) deal with
its responsibilities would be that of an elder, which we understand to be a
Christian who has been given by God to pastor, teach, and counsel. Since all
authority in heaven and on earth has already been given to Jesus Christ, man
can only function as His delagate.

I often wonder if the tremendous push toward whatever organizational
structure that may exist in an IC is borne of 1 Samuel 8 -

1 And it came about when Samuel was old that he appointed his sons judges
over Israel.2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel, and the name of his
second, Abijah; they were judging in Beersheba.3 His sons, however, did not
walk in his ways, but turned aside after dishonest gain and took bribes and
perverted justice.4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came
to Samuel at Ramah; 5 and they said to him, "Behold, you have grown old, and
your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king for us to judge us
like all the nations." 6 But the thing was displeasing in the sight of
Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." And Samuel prayed to
the LORD. 7 The LORD said to Samuel, "Listen to the voice of the people in
regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they
have rejected Me from being king over them. 8 "Like all the deeds which they
have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this
day-in that they have forsaken Me and served other gods-so they are doing to
you also. 9 "Now then, listen to their voice; however, you shall solemnly
warn them and tell them of the procedure of the king who will reign over
them." 10 So Samuel spoke all the words of the LORD to the people who had
asked of him a king. 11 He said, "This will be the procedure of the king who
will reign over you: he will take your sons and place them for himself in
his chariots and among his horsemen and they will run before his chariots.
12 "He will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and of fifties, and
some to do his plowing and to reap his harvest and to make his weapons of
war and equipment for his chariots. 13 "He will also take your daughters for
perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 "He will take the best of your fields and
your vineyards and your olive groves and give them to his servants. 15 "He
will take a tenth of your seed and of your vineyards and give to his
officers and to his servants. 16 "He will also take your male servants and
your female servants and your best young men and your donkeys and use them
for his work. 17 "He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves
will become his servants. 18 "Then you will cry out in that day because of
your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer
you in that day." 19 Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to the voice
of Samuel, and they said, "No, but there shall be a king over us, 20 that we
also may be like all the nations, that our king may judge us and go out
before us and fight our battles." 21 Now after Samuel had heard all the
words of the people, he repeated them in the LORD'S hearing. 22 The LORD
said to Samuel, "Listen to their voice and appoint them a king." So Samuel
said to the men of Israel, "Go every man to his city."

Is this a perfect model for the IC or not? ANd does it not reflect the heart
of men in this world to so deliberately reject the word of God, even when
directly spoken by Him, to His face?  I Regret that I have done that myself,
and prayer that the Holy Spirit would keep me mindful of my need to repent
when such raises its head to attempt to make me stumble.

Earnestly contending, your borther in Christ.,

Gary

(Written using WindowEyes, the premier screenreading program from GW Micro
that makes PCs accessible to the blind and visually impaired.  Contact:
www.gwmicro.com)

"Preach not only so that the people can understand, but so that they cannot
misunderstand if they wish."  CH.Spurgeon

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the
full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the
schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but
against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this
darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist
in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm."  Ephesians
6:10-13
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DanG" <dan.dgordon at gmail.com>
To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Alexander Strauch on Biblical Eldership


> Glenn wrote:
> > Dan G.--
> > Very hurriedly I'll seek to answer some things from your post this
> > morning.  First of all, the Lord has used Alex Strauch to benefit our
> > family in various ways over the past ten years.  He was very gracious in
> > helping us connect with a small gathering of saints in our area early on
> > in our relationship.  I would say he is not at all your typical
"Plymouth
> > Brethren."  He has promoted Spirit-led brotherly interaction in the face
> > of a movement which is fast moving towards more clerical sensibilities
> > (despite its roots emphasizing the co-equality and "priesthood of
> > believers").  [He has also defended the doctrines of grace while others
> > have been taken in by pragmatism and antinomianism.]
> >
> > As for the prospect of a "cessation theory of elders" (;-9), I would
> > propose that the New Testament presents co-equal plurality of exemplary
> > older men in oversight as an apostolic tradition to be followed
> > throughout the age.  Many today are denying the complementary truths of
> > the "church" in two senses--"the church" as the one body of Christ (Eph.
> > 4:5), and "the churches" (I Cor. 11:16, 14:34) plural, in which the
> > saints are gathered together.  It may be that an aversion to any
> > leadership at all is an overreaction to the prevalent lordliness and
> > clerical-mindedness which we see in the denominations which we have
fled.
> > [To put all this into somewhat of a prophetic perspective then, perhaps
> > in overreaction to the doctrine of the Nicolaitans and Balaam
> > (authoritarianism) the doctrine of Jezebel (egalitarianism) has arisen.
> > It seems that ultimately the two doctrines tend to work hand in hand in
> > keeping the saints from the preeminence of the Lord Jesus.]
> >
> > Out of time to write on these things for now...
> >
> > Grace in Christ,
> > Glenn S.
>
> Thanks for the interaction, Glenn.
>
> That is good news about Mr. Strauch - I just know that the plymouth
> brethren can be as you also characterized them - quite parochial at
> times.  And you seem to know Mr Strauch there in Littleton, CO, still?
>  I may have heard him several times as my mother attended that
> assembly for some time, and we were in a new assembly in CSpgs some 15
> years back.
>
> I also appreicate your comments on throwing out leadership - I hear
> those comments loud and clear.  However, there needs to be an equal
> caution which I know you hear loud and clear, that we not slip into an
> assumption of ecclesiastical order since that is what we understand to
> be written about in the Bible.  This type of order established and
> demanded among men can be a detriment to the work of God among men if
> the structure which we assume to be the understood manner of the Bible
> is not able to be seen or implemented among us as we gather.  Indeed,
> as you point toward, age and experience speak loud and clear when it
> is God who has done the cultivating.  Equally so, Paul must have been
> somewhat of a young guy when he attempted to enter Damascus - God had
> grown him also.
>
> Somehow, attentiveness seems to focus on "what is proper" or "whad
> does the Bible say" to the detriment of other perhaps more important
> things - I leave the enumeration of both these categories to each of
> you to fill in the blank - but for this thread, we probably are
> speaking about leadership to the detriment of (_______ fib?).  I am no
> loosey goosey about what we may be ignoring - I am probably to the
> right of utilla the hun on most things really.  Hence, my suggestion
> would be that we are not taking to task the reality of God in our
> lives and assembly as we can/should, perhaps.  Not too many
> generations have had a Bible to have in their posession, this is one
> huge blessing to us today.  And, this blessing does not come to us at
> the hand of a printing press only.  It has been hard won for us today,
> and lives were strained or lost in the process of arriving at a hugely
> authoritative version for us english readers.  This is a provision of
> God to us today, and I take that to be one hugely serious blessing,
> and in the face of numerous other challenges to the authority of God
> and the salvation which God has mastered for me in Jesus Christ -  For
> he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be
> made the righteousness of God in him.  Therefore, I am skeptical and
> interested in dialogs that entertain the function and personality of
> leadership in the assembly.  Too many problems can be identified with
> leadership, and good leadership - we are reading 2Chronicles in our
> meeting tomorrow.  That account has leadership importance written all
> over it.  And, today is no different among men.  However, God has
> given us the Bible.  And the Bible points throughout to Jesus Christ
> alone - there is no other.  Can it not be cultivated that this
> leadership is core? and needs to be accosted as core? more vigorously?
>  We can argue about the downfalls of this, perhaps, but we already
> know the downfalls of leadership as we conceive it today - much of
> which is poor and leading quickly in poor directions.
> DanG ChicagoArea
>
>