House Church Talk - The Doctrines of Grace

[Gary]

I too would urge taking this "debate" off-list, especially when it has begun 
with such a subjective and personal attack on anyone who holds to what the 
Bible teaches as the doctrines of grace. I say this because how can one 
argue with a message claimed to be from God and not be put in the position 
of arguing with God Himself? How does one counter statements like "a 
doctrine never found in Scripture", or "a doctrine foreign to Scripture"? 
Lord, forgive him for he does not know what he is saying about you!

This is how... If anyone wants to open his Bible and study with me, fine, I 
will be happy to take this off-list and teach/study/disciple on this 
subject. I do not debate, because I have no desire to win anyone over to MY 
point of view. It is my responsibility to hold to God's point of view but I 
am happy to discuss and try and convince people of the truth. If they want 
to do the SAME with me, fine, because while I do not believe I am wrong in 
this case, we can't talk unless I am willing to listen to you and hear your 
words. We may not end up agreeing, but hopefully we will remain as 
brothers/sisters in Christ, or that you may become such if you are not 
already..

I believe that the doctrines, or teachings of grace are what is taught 
directly by the Bible. I was dead in the Spirit, but have been made alive by 
the active decision of God to do so in grace. So has  everyone who is a 
Christian, whether they know it or not. No, I do not speak of Calvinism, for 
I am not a Calvinist. Neither am I what is called (as derisively) an 
Arminian. I am a Christian who believes what is taught in the Bible, through 
the working of the Holy Spirit, to hearts that were once as dead stones, but 
have been made alive in Jesus Christ by the sovereign work of God.

Oddly enough, the house fellowship of the church is the ideal format by 
which to deal with matters of this kind. Sermons can get you generally 
convinced, but it is by dealing with questions with and open Bible and 
concordance (or preferably with a computer Bible <grin>) that we can STUDY 
the Scriptures to see if these things are so.

People with an interest in this subject may find the following link 
interesting. Those who stand for truth should wield the sword of the Spirit, 
and not the scythe of self righteousness.

http://www.christiancounterculture.com/40615/machen.html

Earnestly contending,

Gary

(Written using WindowEyes, the premier screenreading program from GW Micro 
that makes PCs accessible to the blind and visually impaired.  Contact: 
www.gwmicro.com)

"Preach not only so that the people can understand, but so that they cannot 
misunderstand if they wish."  CH.Spurgeon

"When they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper 
and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the 
dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do 
not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn." (Isaiah 
8:19-20)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at hotmail.com>
To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 2:42 PM
Subject: House Church Talk -  The Doctrines of Grace


> When I awoke this morning, the Lord brought one word to my mind...GRACE! 
> I realized that I could never recall actually doing a word study on 
> "grace" before. So with the Online Bible I began to look up all the 
> references to grace in the scriptures. What an awesome thing is the grace 
> of God revealed in all it's splendor in Christ!
>
> As I considered the subject of grace, I recalled that "the doctrines of 
> grace" have been mentioned here on HC- talk a few times recently. I'm not 
> sure how those who used that term here understand it, but I have often 
> heard "the Five Points of Calvinism" (otherwise known as TULIP) referred 
> to as "the doctrines of grace".  I was intrigued this morning to find that 
> a number of scriptural statements relative to the doctrine of grace are 
> actually direct answers to the doctrines of Calvinism, none of which can 
> be stated in words of scripture.
>
> 1.TOTAL DEPRAVITY.
> The grace of God does not deal with those who are "depraved" as a result 
> of a "fall " as many have been taught. "Depravity" is crookedness or being 
> bent out of shape, a doctrine never found in scripture.  Falls are usually 
> accidental and are rarely fatal. Scripture never once teaches that man 
> "fell" into sin!!!  Eve and Adam both made a DELIBERATE CHOICE to sin, a 
> choice of which they had clearly been warned of God and informed of the 
> consequence (death). While "Total Depravity" is a docrtine that is foreign 
> to scripture, the "TERRORS OF DEATH" certainly is a docrtine of the Book! 
> (Job 24:17 and Psalm 55:4) There is no remedy whatsoever for those who 
> only claim to be depraved (crooked or bent) but the grace of God is the 
> solution for those who acknowledge that they are  DEAD in trespasses and 
> sins!!
>
> This doctrine of grace is found in the following scriptures:
> Romans 5:14-21 Nevertheless DEATH reigned from Adam to Moses, even over 
> them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who 
> is the figure of him that was to come.  But not as the offence, so also is 
> the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be DEAD, much more 
> the GRACE of God, and the gift by GRACE, which is by one man, Jesus 
> Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that SINNED, so 
> is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free 
> gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence 
> DEATH reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of GRACE and 
> of the gift
> of righteousness shall reign in LIFE by one, Jesus Christ.)  Therefore as 
> by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so 
> by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto 
> justification of LIFE. For as by one man's disobedience many were made 
> SINNERS, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover 
> the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where SIN abounded, 
> GRACE did much more abound: That as SIN hath reigned unto DEATH, even so 
> might GRACE reign through righteousness unto eternal LIFE by Jesus Christ 
> our Lord.
> Ephesians 2:5  Even when we were DEAD in SINS, hath QUICKENED us together 
> with Christ, (BY GRACE ye are saved;)
>
> 2.UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION.
> That God would bestow His grace in salvation apart from any conditions is 
> an utter impossibility! No one, and not even God can make a choice without 
> conditions!  Every choice has a purpose and the purpose of the choice 
> determines the conditions of the choice! When God elected one to be His 
> perfect servant (Isaiah 42), the purpose of that choice placed conditions 
> so stringent that only one man out of all of humanity qualified! When God 
> chose to save sinners, righteous ones were excluded! Because God resists 
> the proud, all proud ones were excluded! But because God has chosen to 
> give His grace to the humble, all who humble themselves before God were 
> included!
>
> The scriptural doctrine of grace that is the answer to the unscriptural 
> doctrine of unconditional election is found in the following scriptures:
> Proverbs 3:34  Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto 
> the lowly.
> James 4:6  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the 
> proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
> 1 Peter 5:5  Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, 
> all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility:
>
> The truth that God chose a particular KIND is declared in the key O.T. and 
> N.T. statements of the doctrine of election:
> Isaiah 49:7  Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy 
> One, TO HIM WHO MAN DESPISETH, TO HIM WHOM THE NATION ABHORRETH, TO A 
> SERVANT OF RULERS, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, 
> because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and HE 
> SHALL CHOOSE THEE.
> I Corinthians 1:26-29 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many 
> wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 
> But GOD HATH CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS of the world to confound the wise; 
> and GOD HATH CHOSEN THE WEAK THINGS of the world to confound the things 
> which are mighty; AND THE BASE THINGS of the world, AND THINGS WHICH ARE 
> DESPISED, HATH GOD CHOSEN, yea, AND THINGS WHICH ARE NOT, to bring to 
> nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.
>
> 3. LIMITTED ATONEMENT.
> Atonement is NOT salvation, forgiveness, justification or being made "at 
> one with God" as many have been taught!  Atonement is the covering for 
> rebellious sinners provided by the shedding of blood which enables God to 
> justly be longsuffering with sinners and not exercise His wrath 
> immediately. Once a year, on the day of atonement (Leviticus 16), 
> atonement (KAPHAR, a covering) was made for ALL of Israel, a nation of 
> rebels,  for ALL  of their transgressions, ALL of their iniquities and ALL 
> of their sins. (Lev.16:16,17,21,22,30,33 and 34.)  On that day, a bullock 
> and a goat were killed as a sin offering.(Lev.16:18,19) Then on a living 
> goat (the sin bearer) was placed all of the sins of the people. That goat 
> was sent away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness, a land not 
> inhabitted.(Lev.16:21,22)
>
> ALL of Israel were redeemed (delivered from bondage) Ex.15:13, they were 
> ALL reconciled (brought near to God from far) when the tabernacle was 
> completed and the sacrifices on the altar commenced and God came to dwell 
> in the holiest of all (just a mere 35 feet from the tabernacle courtyard 
> fence!)  They were ALL atoned for (covered from the wrath of God) every 
> year on the day of atonement (Lev.16)  But being redeemed, reconciled and 
> atoned for did NOT make one Israelite forgiven or right with God!  These 
> provisions of God for ALL of them only made it possible for those 
> individuals among them, who would humble themselves, acknowledge their 
> sins, take God's provision and rely on the sacrifice that God required, 
> to receive the forgiveness of their sins PERSONALLY! (Lev.4:27-35)
>
> So too, by the shedding of His blood at Calvary, the Lord Jesus redeemed 
> ALL men, not just believers, but "them that were under the law" Gal.4:4. 
> Not just believers are "bought" ( I Cor.6:20 and 7:23) but also false 
> prophets and false teachers who bring in damnable heresies and deny the 
> Lord that bought them! (II Peter 2:1)
>
> In like manner, the Lord Jesus reconciled ALL men, i.e. brought them near 
> to God from far. (Rom.5:10, II Cor.5:19)  This is a different work than 
> that of full reconciliation i.e. aliens and enemies of God being brought 
> to peace with God.
>
> In the very same way, the scriptural doctrine of grace which is the answer 
> to the unscriptural doctrine of limitted atonement is that of unlimitted 
> atonement found in Hebrews 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little 
> lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and 
> honour; THAT HE BY THE GRACE OF GOD SHOULD TASTE DEATH FOR EVERY MAN.
>
> Other scriptures which state the very same truth are the following:
> John 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, 
> Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin  of the world.
> 1 John 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours 
> only, but also for the whole world.
>
> 4.IRRESISTIBLE GRACE.
> Again, the doctrine that God's grace is irresistible is never stated in 
> scripture! Rather the opposite is clearly stated by the following 
> doctrines of grace:
> Titus 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to 
> all men,...
> The Holy Spirit, who is called "the Spirit of grace" in Hebrews 10:29 is 
> ALWAYS RESISTED by men to whom the grace of God has appeared!
> Acts 7:51  Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO 
> ALWAYS RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, so do ye.
> So the truth of scripture is NOT that God's grace cannot be resisted by 
> men, but rather that God will not resist the humble! God, Himself, has 
> pledged that He will resist the proud, but will give grace to the humble.
> James 4:6  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the 
> proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
> 1 Peter 5:5  Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, 
> all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for 
> God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
>
> Had the Lord Jesus not redeemed, reconciled and atoned for all the world, 
> NOT one of us could ever have received forgiveness of sins, justification 
> or known peace with God. But because all were redeemed, all were brought 
> near from far, all were atoned for there is also forgiveness, 
> justification and peace with God which is available to all who will humble 
> themselves in the sight of the Lord!  He guarantees that He will lift them 
> up!
>
> 5. PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS.
> Scripture never ever states the doctrine of the perseverance of the 
> saints. Perseverance is always self effort!  The scriptural doctrine is 
> rather that of THE PRESERVATION OF THE SAINTS.
>
> The scriptural  doctrine of grace that is the answer to the doctrine of 
> the perseverance of the saints is found in I Peter 1:1-5.  Peter, an 
> apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, 
> Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,  ELECT ACCORDING TO THE 
> FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, 
> unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: GRACE UNTO 
> YOU, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord 
> Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again 
> unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To 
> an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, 
> reserved in heaven for YOU, WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith 
> unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
>
> The doctrine of the preservation of the saints is also stated in the 
> following scriptures:
> Psalms 37:28  For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; 
> they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
> 1 Thessalonians 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I 
> pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto 
> the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
> Jude 1:1  Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them 
> that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and 
> called:
>
> May we always cling to doctrines which are stated clearly in scripture and 
> reject all such as are not thus stated.
>
> Your brother in Christ,
> Bruce
>
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